3 ms·

At some point consumers need to become more computer savvy and responsible netzens.

sgc 3y ago
Sounds more like we need a minimum required period for security updates after a device is sold, and other similar measures. It is much, much easier to enforce this type of thing with one manufacturer than with 100k customers, many of whom are elderly and will never be able to do it themselves no matter how much we preach.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > It is much, much easier to enforce this type of thing with one manufacturer than with 100k customers, many of whom are elderly and will never be able to do it themselves no matter how much we preach. They all pay their ISP a hefty "rental" fee for their crap modem. It's only fair to hold the ISPs responsible in such cases.
  - sgc 3y ago
    That type of thing is why I threw in "and other similar measures". Of course there needs to be a basic security policy that is developed and enforced, and resellers / lessors should be responsible. We already have plenty to draw from, such as car/appliance recalls, large organization security policies, etc. There is a ton of low hanging fruit that could be easily dealt with quickly if there were political will.
  - gunapologist99 3y ago
    This is how you end up getting forced to be behind their awful DNAT DPI "firewall", which will still be insecure, and you won't have any access to it.
Arrath 3y ago
Sounds like an empty feel good platitude for the technically minded to feel superior to the rubes buying crap from manufacturers who put out that insecure crap in the first place. Yes, everyone could be more responsible about their consumption but why should that free the manufacturers from the responsibility of making competent products to begin with?
recursive 3y ago
I'm a software developer, and I've thought about my home router almost never. I've updated it exactly never. I'm using the default one from my ISP, and I think I'm paying a monthly rental fee for the privilege. I don't know how to tell whether my router is vulnerable, or what I could even do about it. If I'm not savvy enough for your proposed rules, which does seem quite possible, I don't think most people have much hope.
4gotunameagain 3y ago
Any responsible citizen would respect the right of their fellow citizens to not be computer savvy, in an age where technology is eating us apart. It is the job of the techies to fix techie problems. When a bridge shakes beyond specs, it is the job of engineers to fix it, bridge building is not crowdsourced to society.
FpUser 3y ago
I am computer savvy but I have better things to do vs researching innards of every tech gizmo I own.

sgc 3y ago

Sounds more like we need a minimum required period for security updates after a device is sold, and other similar measures. It is much, much easier to enforce this type of thing with one manufacturer than with 100k customers, many of whom are elderly and will never be able to do it themselves no matter how much we preach.

mschuster91 3y ago
> It is much, much easier to enforce this type of thing with one manufacturer than with 100k customers, many of whom are elderly and will never be able to do it themselves no matter how much we preach. They all pay their ISP a hefty "rental" fee for their crap modem. It's only fair to hold the ISPs responsible in such cases.
- sgc 3y ago
  That type of thing is why I threw in "and other similar measures". Of course there needs to be a basic security policy that is developed and enforced, and resellers / lessors should be responsible. We already have plenty to draw from, such as car/appliance recalls, large organization security policies, etc. There is a ton of low hanging fruit that could be easily dealt with quickly if there were political will.
- gunapologist99 3y ago
  This is how you end up getting forced to be behind their awful DNAT DPI "firewall", which will still be insecure, and you won't have any access to it.

Arrath 3y ago

Sounds like an empty feel good platitude for the technically minded to feel superior to the rubes buying crap from manufacturers who put out that insecure crap in the first place. Yes, everyone could be more responsible about their consumption but why should that free the manufacturers from the responsibility of making competent products to begin with?

recursive 3y ago

I'm a software developer, and I've thought about my home router almost never. I've updated it exactly never. I'm using the default one from my ISP, and I think I'm paying a monthly rental fee for the privilege. I don't know how to tell whether my router is vulnerable, or what I could even do about it. If I'm not savvy enough for your proposed rules, which does seem quite possible, I don't think most people have much hope.

4gotunameagain 3y ago

Any responsible citizen would respect the right of their fellow citizens to not be computer savvy, in an age where technology is eating us apart. It is the job of the techies to fix techie problems. When a bridge shakes beyond specs, it is the job of engineers to fix it, bridge building is not crowdsourced to society.

FpUser 3y ago

I am computer savvy but I have better things to do vs researching innards of every tech gizmo I own.