4 ms·

It is infiltrating healthcare in all of the worst possible ways at present. It is sneaking into diagnosis and treatment in ways that are outright dangerous to p

It is infiltrating healthcare in all of the worst possible ways at present. It is sneaking into diagnosis and treatment in ways that are outright dangerous to patients.

pedalpete 3y ago
Can you give an example of this? Where I'm familiar with AI in healthcare is tools to help radiologists and cardiologists detect cancer early. This is a support AI, not the AI doing all of the work. I'm also hearing about the potential for generative AI to provide a good bedside manner in "discussing" a diagnosis with a patient. Not diagnosing, but having more patience and time than a doctor has to communicate with the patient on known entities. We use ML for measuring sleep state and finding opportunities to stimulate the brain to improve the efficiency of deep sleep. Where are these "worst possible ways" that I'm unfamiliar with?
- Devasta 3y ago
  The above examples you've provided sound pretty dreadful to be honest. I can't imagine how awful it would be to be told I've a serious disease and then be stuck talking about it to a chatbot of all things.
  - inheritedwisdom 3y ago
    The clinicians themselves can be pretty dreadful. The uses being explored are to give coaching to them ahead of delivering news to help boost empathy and increase understanding. “It looks like you had a subdural hematoma cause a status epilepticus seizure” vs “that fall you took broke some blood vessels in your head which caused a longer seizure than we like to see”.
- viraptor 3y ago
  It's also used for visit notes generation and works really well. Doctors are really loving this one in my experience https://www.lyrebirdhealth.com/ https://www.lyrebirdhealth.com/ It's also assistive of course - it basically generates a draft that you're supposed to edit.
- duffpkg 3y ago
  Doctors are using it inappropriately to diagnose and advise treatment on their phones without telling patients. It is being rolled out in all manner of automated classification, huge amounts of behind the scenes healthcare involves manual review of charts for classification purposes that is associated with various streams of funding. Low level employees are turning to general purpose AI to assist with this, leaking data, not understanding how unreliable these tools can be for this. Billing departments are "secretly" using it to "refine" coding. Pretty much all of the dumb irresponsible things you can think of.
  - jklein11 3y ago
    > Billing departments are "secretly" using it to "refine" coding. What does this mean exactly?
    - devbytes 3y ago
      When billing any insurance company, all procedures are assigned a "code" to standardize the payment/procedure performed across systems. Some doctor patient visits may fall under multiple codes, so billers will optimize for the highest paying code.
  - devbytes 3y ago
    Ingesting visit notes and having an LLM help determine what billing codes to use seems like a great use of AI in my opinion.
    - spcebar 3y ago
      Billing codes are complicated and the rules behind them change frequently. These seem like a case where AI could present a wrong answer with authority—probably a close to correct answer, but one that could cost a patient or practice.
      - devbytes 3y ago
        I'm not saying it should go without human intervention. It could do a great job at selecting the most likely codes and displaying them to the biller.
jsharkey 3y ago
Here's a doctor who made some humorous observations about how AI is being used by their peers in writing suddenly-coherent patient notes: https://youtu.be/WgnWgIOer6s https://youtu.be/WgnWgIOer6s

It is infiltrating healthcare in all of the worst possible ways at present. It is sneaking into diagnosis and treatment in ways that are outright dangerous to patients.

pedalpete 3y ago

Can you give an example of this? Where I'm familiar with AI in healthcare is tools to help radiologists and cardiologists detect cancer early. This is a support AI, not the AI doing all of the work. I'm also hearing about the potential for generative AI to provide a good bedside manner in "discussing" a diagnosis with a patient. Not diagnosing, but having more patience and time than a doctor has to communicate with the patient on known entities. We use ML for measuring sleep state and finding opportunities to stimulate the brain to improve the efficiency of deep sleep. Where are these "worst possible ways" that I'm unfamiliar with?

Devasta 3y ago
The above examples you've provided sound pretty dreadful to be honest. I can't imagine how awful it would be to be told I've a serious disease and then be stuck talking about it to a chatbot of all things.
- inheritedwisdom 3y ago
  The clinicians themselves can be pretty dreadful. The uses being explored are to give coaching to them ahead of delivering news to help boost empathy and increase understanding. “It looks like you had a subdural hematoma cause a status epilepticus seizure” vs “that fall you took broke some blood vessels in your head which caused a longer seizure than we like to see”.
viraptor 3y ago
It's also used for visit notes generation and works really well. Doctors are really loving this one in my experience https://www.lyrebirdhealth.com/ https://www.lyrebirdhealth.com/ It's also assistive of course - it basically generates a draft that you're supposed to edit.
duffpkg 3y ago
Doctors are using it inappropriately to diagnose and advise treatment on their phones without telling patients. It is being rolled out in all manner of automated classification, huge amounts of behind the scenes healthcare involves manual review of charts for classification purposes that is associated with various streams of funding. Low level employees are turning to general purpose AI to assist with this, leaking data, not understanding how unreliable these tools can be for this. Billing departments are "secretly" using it to "refine" coding. Pretty much all of the dumb irresponsible things you can think of.
- jklein11 3y ago
  > Billing departments are "secretly" using it to "refine" coding. What does this mean exactly?
  - devbytes 3y ago
    When billing any insurance company, all procedures are assigned a "code" to standardize the payment/procedure performed across systems. Some doctor patient visits may fall under multiple codes, so billers will optimize for the highest paying code.
- devbytes 3y ago
  Ingesting visit notes and having an LLM help determine what billing codes to use seems like a great use of AI in my opinion.
  - spcebar 3y ago
    Billing codes are complicated and the rules behind them change frequently. These seem like a case where AI could present a wrong answer with authority—probably a close to correct answer, but one that could cost a patient or practice.
    - devbytes 3y ago
      I'm not saying it should go without human intervention. It could do a great job at selecting the most likely codes and displaying them to the biller.

jsharkey 3y ago

Here's a doctor who made some humorous observations about how AI is being used by their peers in writing suddenly-coherent patient notes: https://youtu.be/WgnWgIOer6s https://youtu.be/WgnWgIOer6s