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What reference do you have for Clojure influencing the language Scala? Scala is older, so that seems surprising to me.

by dons 14y ago

fogus 14y ago
Odersky himself has implied that Scala was prompted by Clojure in its recent persistent structure implementations. However, this influence is motivational rather than via copied code (as stated at http://stackoverflow.com/a/3108380 http://stackoverflow.com/a/3108380). Although Odersky does mention the word "copied" in an interview that I had with him, but that state of affairs may have changed (http://blog.fogus.me/2010/08/06/martinodersky-take5-tolist/ http://blog.fogus.me/2010/08/06/martinodersky-take5-tolist/).
- dons 14y ago
  My guess was that it was going to be the container library, rather than the language itself. If libraries are included, then Clojure-inspired HAMTs are in Haskell as well. But really, Clojure, Haskell and Scala are all just implementing Bagwell's ideas, http://lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealhashtrees.pdf http://lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealhashtrees.pdf whose feasibility was shown in Clojure. See e.g. for Haskell, originally as http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-February/073628.html http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-February/... and now as http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/6/65/HIW2011-Talk-Tibell.pdf http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/6/65/HIW2011-Talk-Tibell.p... However, your graph will be much more complicated if libraries are allowed to influence each other, rather than strictly considering language features.
  - fogus 14y ago
    > My guess was that it was going to be the > container library, rather than the language itself. This walks a thin line for sure and in Scala the line is almost microscopic. I'll keep it for now since my reasoning was the same as the Erlang->Scala influence. A core language library that is rarely viewed as other than a core feature.
    - soc88 14y ago
      I disagree with that. There is great attention between language features and functionality shipped in the standard library. This http://clojure.com/blog/2012/04/19/take5-daniel-spiewak.html http://clojure.com/blog/2012/04/19/take5-daniel-spiewak.html might also be of interest.

What reference do you have for Clojure influencing the language Scala? Scala is older, so that seems surprising to me.

by dons 14y ago

What reference do you have for Clojure influencing the language Scala? Scala is older, so that seems surprising to me.

fogus 14y ago

Odersky himself has implied that Scala was prompted by Clojure in its recent persistent structure implementations. However, this influence is motivational rather than via copied code (as stated at http://stackoverflow.com/a/3108380 http://stackoverflow.com/a/3108380). Although Odersky does mention the word "copied" in an interview that I had with him, but that state of affairs may have changed (http://blog.fogus.me/2010/08/06/martinodersky-take5-tolist/ http://blog.fogus.me/2010/08/06/martinodersky-take5-tolist/).

dons 14y ago
My guess was that it was going to be the container library, rather than the language itself. If libraries are included, then Clojure-inspired HAMTs are in Haskell as well. But really, Clojure, Haskell and Scala are all just implementing Bagwell's ideas, http://lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealhashtrees.pdf http://lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealhashtrees.pdf whose feasibility was shown in Clojure. See e.g. for Haskell, originally as http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-February/073628.html http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-February/... and now as http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/6/65/HIW2011-Talk-Tibell.pdf http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/6/65/HIW2011-Talk-Tibell.p... However, your graph will be much more complicated if libraries are allowed to influence each other, rather than strictly considering language features.
- fogus 14y ago
  > My guess was that it was going to be the > container library, rather than the language itself. This walks a thin line for sure and in Scala the line is almost microscopic. I'll keep it for now since my reasoning was the same as the Erlang->Scala influence. A core language library that is rarely viewed as other than a core feature.
  - soc88 14y ago
    I disagree with that. There is great attention between language features and functionality shipped in the standard library. This http://clojure.com/blog/2012/04/19/take5-daniel-spiewak.html http://clojure.com/blog/2012/04/19/take5-daniel-spiewak.html might also be of interest.