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> Protect the landlord's profit at all cost Why should the gov subsidize the landlord in order to allow people to not be homeless? The market rate is too high,

> Protect the landlord's profit at all cost Why should the gov subsidize the landlord in order to allow people to not be homeless? The market rate is too high, sorry landlords.

mc32 3y ago
Because presumably it's your property and they are interfering with market prices. If the gov wants to make them free they can, if they buy your property and through taxes make it available to indigent people. That's not something you should shoulder.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  Its a bad investment, they should sell at a loss and find something else to do.
itake 3y ago
Landlords have the opposite problem on the west coast: Instead of the gov subsidizing landlords, private landlords subsidize the government. The rental protections give renters a softer landing for non-payment on the landlord’s dime. Landlords literally have to pay tenants to leave. The "cash for keys" money comes from the backs of future tenants. Also, for most of the usa now, it is cheaper to rent than buy. My mortgage, taxes, and insurance is way beyond what I could rent my house for. It makes zero sense to create more rental properties.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Eh.. in California at least, most landlords are being massively subsidized by Prop 13 related shenanigans. At my last apartment in SF, my landlord's property tax bill was less than 1 month of my rent (less than $3k annual) -- I was shopping for similar homes and my property taxes would have been closer to $20k annually. Multi-unit buildings were way worse since they can be transferred creatively without reseting the property tax assessment. Just picking on a random building in my old neighborhood but 498 Carl in the Inner Sunset of SF is a 6-unit rental building - at least 3 of the units have turned over in the past few years and were rented for over $3k each. Total property taxes due on this 6,000sq ft building which is netting the owner more than $150k in rent are $6,800 annually. https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax/accounts/1265-015?qid=89768972d3905eb5e36e92dc14c0a1f0 https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax... Across the street a nice 1,700sq ft SFH which sold in 2021 -- property taxes on this house are $20,000 annually. https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax/accounts/1750-042?qid=85dd0a746a5e47a345687b9b64f6a583 https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax...
  - itake 3y ago
    Prop 13 and high interest rates incentivize Landlords to aggressively price their properties to just break even. On my property in Seattle-area, my monthly cost is $4k (interest, insurance, and upkeep), but the most I could rent it for is $3.2k/mo. If the tenants don't pay me rent and utilities, I can't evict them for months.
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      Prop13 - which keeps property taxes low for people who don’t turnover buildings - incentivizes landlords to seek high rents? Just nonsensical. Landlords seek high rents because they are capitalists and charge as much as the market can bear. That shouldn’t be controversial.. there are indeed all sorts of distortions caused by eviction moratoriums and renters rights laws, likewise there are distortions to refineries due to environmental laws. Just part of the ‘cost’ of doing business.
      - itake 3y ago
        > Landlords seek high rents because they are capitalists and charge as much as the market can bear. I am a landlord. This is completely false. I rent out rooms in my house to help me cover the cost of living in my house. Lets take the property in SF you mentioned: property taxes: $1,600/mo mortgage: $10,253/mo [0] repairs: $1,269/mo (1% of home value / 12) total costs: $11,682 / mo zEstimate for rent: $5,495/mo net revenue: -$6,187/mo As a landlord, I want to get my rental income as close to the costs, so I can stop bleeding money on this property. I can't change my property taxes, mortgage, or repair costs, but I can push rent as high as can I can. Once my costs are covered, my next biggest fear is vacancy and bad tenants. One bad tenant will easily cost me $100k. My only option for bad tenants is to self-insure, and that self-insurance money must come from somewhere... [0] - https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1273-Arguello-Blvd-San-Francisco-CA-94122/241586122_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1273-Arguello-Blvd-San-Fr...
        mikeyouse 3y ago
        But that's not Prop 13 at play since it's a single-family home bought recently -- do the same math for the 6 unit building across the street paying $6k/year in taxes.

> Protect the landlord's profit at all cost Why should the gov subsidize the landlord in order to allow people to not be homeless? The market rate is too high, sorry landlords.

mc32 3y ago

Because presumably it's your property and they are interfering with market prices. If the gov wants to make them free they can, if they buy your property and through taxes make it available to indigent people. That's not something you should shoulder.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
Its a bad investment, they should sell at a loss and find something else to do.

itake 3y ago

Landlords have the opposite problem on the west coast: Instead of the gov subsidizing landlords, private landlords subsidize the government. The rental protections give renters a softer landing for non-payment on the landlord’s dime. Landlords literally have to pay tenants to leave. The "cash for keys" money comes from the backs of future tenants. Also, for most of the usa now, it is cheaper to rent than buy. My mortgage, taxes, and insurance is way beyond what I could rent my house for. It makes zero sense to create more rental properties.

mikeyouse 3y ago
Eh.. in California at least, most landlords are being massively subsidized by Prop 13 related shenanigans. At my last apartment in SF, my landlord's property tax bill was less than 1 month of my rent (less than $3k annual) -- I was shopping for similar homes and my property taxes would have been closer to $20k annually. Multi-unit buildings were way worse since they can be transferred creatively without reseting the property tax assessment. Just picking on a random building in my old neighborhood but 498 Carl in the Inner Sunset of SF is a 6-unit rental building - at least 3 of the units have turned over in the past few years and were rented for over $3k each. Total property taxes due on this 6,000sq ft building which is netting the owner more than $150k in rent are $6,800 annually. https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax/accounts/1265-015?qid=89768972d3905eb5e36e92dc14c0a1f0 https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax... Across the street a nice 1,700sq ft SFH which sold in 2021 -- property taxes on this house are $20,000 annually. https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax/accounts/1750-042?qid=85dd0a746a5e47a345687b9b64f6a583 https://sanfrancisco-ca.county-taxes.com/public/property_tax...
- itake 3y ago
  Prop 13 and high interest rates incentivize Landlords to aggressively price their properties to just break even. On my property in Seattle-area, my monthly cost is $4k (interest, insurance, and upkeep), but the most I could rent it for is $3.2k/mo. If the tenants don't pay me rent and utilities, I can't evict them for months.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    Prop13 - which keeps property taxes low for people who don’t turnover buildings - incentivizes landlords to seek high rents? Just nonsensical. Landlords seek high rents because they are capitalists and charge as much as the market can bear. That shouldn’t be controversial.. there are indeed all sorts of distortions caused by eviction moratoriums and renters rights laws, likewise there are distortions to refineries due to environmental laws. Just part of the ‘cost’ of doing business.
    - itake 3y ago
      > Landlords seek high rents because they are capitalists and charge as much as the market can bear. I am a landlord. This is completely false. I rent out rooms in my house to help me cover the cost of living in my house. Lets take the property in SF you mentioned: property taxes: $1,600/mo mortgage: $10,253/mo [0] repairs: $1,269/mo (1% of home value / 12) total costs: $11,682 / mo zEstimate for rent: $5,495/mo net revenue: -$6,187/mo As a landlord, I want to get my rental income as close to the costs, so I can stop bleeding money on this property. I can't change my property taxes, mortgage, or repair costs, but I can push rent as high as can I can. Once my costs are covered, my next biggest fear is vacancy and bad tenants. One bad tenant will easily cost me $100k. My only option for bad tenants is to self-insure, and that self-insurance money must come from somewhere... [0] - https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1273-Arguello-Blvd-San-Francisco-CA-94122/241586122_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1273-Arguello-Blvd-San-Fr...
      - mikeyouse 3y ago
        But that's not Prop 13 at play since it's a single-family home bought recently -- do the same math for the 6 unit building across the street paying $6k/year in taxes.