6 ms·

Elon getting away with it is the problem. Broken windows theory and all that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

Elon getting away with it is the problem. Broken windows theory and all that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

ethbr1 3y ago
Is it though? Lots of people seem to have poor opinions of Elon specifically because he does this sort of thing. That seems to be working as intended. And we're never going to fix the "money buys away consequences" problem. F.ex. I'm not beholden to chefs' opinions of me, if I can throw 100x average salary to get one to work for me.
- actualwitch 3y ago
  It is. A bunch of vocal people having loud opinions online doesn't really matter and that's what he demonstrates perfectly: people are mad, but tesla's are selling like hotcakes, spacex is still successful and his money keeps multiplying. Other people see that and feel no need to maintain appearances. This will only get worse as more and more people catch on.
  - psunavy03 3y ago
    That's because the quality of Tesla and SpaceX's products have nothing to do with Elon himself being an obnoxious ass. Steve Jobs was a horrible human, too, yet Apple is a going concern.
    - actualwitch 3y ago
      If I remember correctly, Steve Jobs did try to maintain non-offensive outward persona. At least from what I remember, the people who he was an ass to were mainly people physically near him: family, coworkers. Scaling that to whole social platform is rather different in scale.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    If the metric by which we gauge society's acceptance of someone is their wealth... Elon isn't the first nor will be the last to be a rich asshole. Making lots of money, and keeping that money, is independent of goodwill. Especially if you're starting rich enough to bypass needing many random people to help you. I can't agree that Elon showing his ass on Twitter is fundamentally changing social acceptance of doing so.
    - actualwitch 3y ago
      I would argue he's the first to just buy one of the biggest social platforms so that he can show his ass on it. Probably not the last one, that we can agree on.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_World https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_World (1883)
        actualwitch 3y ago
        This newspaper didn't even have reach outside US, are you seriously comparing it to fucking twitter?
        ethbr1 3y ago
        Yes. There's a huge portion of humanity who doesn't read Twitter. Newspapers in their heyday were more influential on public discourse.
        actualwitch 3y ago
        If you buy a phone in any place of this planet and then go to its app marketplace, you will likely see twitter as one of the most popular apps on it. I cannot seriously continue this conversation with someone who considers that to be same as some local city newspaper no one seen.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    We are seeing that with all the layoffs. Elon normalized treating engineers like garbage. Feels like only way for us to go back to the old mentality is for his methods to end up crashing and burning his enterprises. As it stands the opposite is happening.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Do these poor opinions really matter? He companies are still the top desired destinations for STEM graduates. Endless supply of people to grind that results in him providing products/services that others can't provide. This results in increased dependance on his companies and him.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I would say his personality absolutely creates headwinds. It reduces sales of vehicles, and public sentiment and visibility drives extra regulatory scrutiny on SpaceX. You have reporters asking the POTUS what he is doing to investigate Musk, and an angry stockholder just got a 50 billion ruling against Musk.
    - nebula8804 3y ago
      Lets break this down one by one >It reduces sales of vehicles Has it really? His cars achieve supposed ~30% profit margins: some of the best in the industry. They have dropped prices beating inflation while competitors cannot. They also got the best software stack of any EV with additional value add such as Sentry mode. Im in the market for a new car and I am baffled as to why every car hasn't copied all the good things from Tesla yet. Its just software! >and public sentiment and visibility drives extra regulatory scrutiny on SpaceX so what? Its not like they can drop SpaceX for some other competitor waiting in the wings? If SpaceX says no to the government, the government is the one to lose out. >You have reporters asking the POTUS what he is doing to investigate Musk More performance art just like the SEC's investigations. Who wants to be the one to be blamed for destroying the golden goose? Definitely not the SEC and Biden is just performing like he always does to please his base so Musk gets away with stuff that would land others in prison. >and an angry stockholder just got a 50 billion ruling against Musk Yeah that was a nice victory but it remains to be seen if he appeals it and/or it has dire consequences for Delaware. So far Delaware has been a small bright dot in an otherwise hopeless situation as this is not the first time they managed to stick it to Musk.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago

Elon getting away with it is the problem. Broken windows theory and all that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

ethbr1 3y ago

Is it though? Lots of people seem to have poor opinions of Elon specifically because he does this sort of thing. That seems to be working as intended. And we're never going to fix the "money buys away consequences" problem. F.ex. I'm not beholden to chefs' opinions of me, if I can throw 100x average salary to get one to work for me.

actualwitch 3y ago
It is. A bunch of vocal people having loud opinions online doesn't really matter and that's what he demonstrates perfectly: people are mad, but tesla's are selling like hotcakes, spacex is still successful and his money keeps multiplying. Other people see that and feel no need to maintain appearances. This will only get worse as more and more people catch on.
- psunavy03 3y ago
  That's because the quality of Tesla and SpaceX's products have nothing to do with Elon himself being an obnoxious ass. Steve Jobs was a horrible human, too, yet Apple is a going concern.
  - actualwitch 3y ago
    If I remember correctly, Steve Jobs did try to maintain non-offensive outward persona. At least from what I remember, the people who he was an ass to were mainly people physically near him: family, coworkers. Scaling that to whole social platform is rather different in scale.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  If the metric by which we gauge society's acceptance of someone is their wealth... Elon isn't the first nor will be the last to be a rich asshole. Making lots of money, and keeping that money, is independent of goodwill. Especially if you're starting rich enough to bypass needing many random people to help you. I can't agree that Elon showing his ass on Twitter is fundamentally changing social acceptance of doing so.
  - actualwitch 3y ago
    I would argue he's the first to just buy one of the biggest social platforms so that he can show his ass on it. Probably not the last one, that we can agree on.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_World https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_World (1883)
      - actualwitch 3y ago
        This newspaper didn't even have reach outside US, are you seriously comparing it to fucking twitter?
        ethbr1 3y ago
        Yes. There's a huge portion of humanity who doesn't read Twitter. Newspapers in their heyday were more influential on public discourse.
        actualwitch 3y ago
        If you buy a phone in any place of this planet and then go to its app marketplace, you will likely see twitter as one of the most popular apps on it. I cannot seriously continue this conversation with someone who considers that to be same as some local city newspaper no one seen.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  We are seeing that with all the layoffs. Elon normalized treating engineers like garbage. Feels like only way for us to go back to the old mentality is for his methods to end up crashing and burning his enterprises. As it stands the opposite is happening.
nebula8804 3y ago
Do these poor opinions really matter? He companies are still the top desired destinations for STEM graduates. Endless supply of people to grind that results in him providing products/services that others can't provide. This results in increased dependance on his companies and him.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I would say his personality absolutely creates headwinds. It reduces sales of vehicles, and public sentiment and visibility drives extra regulatory scrutiny on SpaceX. You have reporters asking the POTUS what he is doing to investigate Musk, and an angry stockholder just got a 50 billion ruling against Musk.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Lets break this down one by one >It reduces sales of vehicles Has it really? His cars achieve supposed ~30% profit margins: some of the best in the industry. They have dropped prices beating inflation while competitors cannot. They also got the best software stack of any EV with additional value add such as Sentry mode. Im in the market for a new car and I am baffled as to why every car hasn't copied all the good things from Tesla yet. Its just software! >and public sentiment and visibility drives extra regulatory scrutiny on SpaceX so what? Its not like they can drop SpaceX for some other competitor waiting in the wings? If SpaceX says no to the government, the government is the one to lose out. >You have reporters asking the POTUS what he is doing to investigate Musk More performance art just like the SEC's investigations. Who wants to be the one to be blamed for destroying the golden goose? Definitely not the SEC and Biden is just performing like he always does to please his base so Musk gets away with stuff that would land others in prison. >and an angry stockholder just got a 50 billion ruling against Musk Yeah that was a nice victory but it remains to be seen if he appeals it and/or it has dire consequences for Delaware. So far Delaware has been a small bright dot in an otherwise hopeless situation as this is not the first time they managed to stick it to Musk.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago