7 ms·

Sell more software with actionable techniques that actually work

34 points by route3 14y ago

spitfire 14y ago
You're wonderful patrick. But stop the signup rubbish. Just give us the video. You'll just be collecting throwaway accounts anyways.
- patio11 14y ago
  I just won a bet with three people on the contents of the first HN comment about this. Whee! Seriously, though: as an empirical prediction of human behavior, you're just wrong with regards to the last sentence. With regards to your desire to just get the video, I politely decline. If you don't want to give me your email address, cool. There's plenty of stuff you could watch on Youtube instead. My understanding is it typically features more kittens and less make-you-money.
  - spitfire 14y ago
    There was never any doubt on that bet. Which is my point - it's an annoying behaviour. Yes, people will give you their email, but they won't like it. That damages your brand (just a little). EDIT: One technique that'd make this cool is to offer the full video for free, then give the option to sign up for more. Too many people have been burnt by teaser "sign up now for secret material" that turns out to be lame.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - patio11 14y ago
      I'm not going to try to convince you that your preferences are irrational, because I probably won't change your mind and have better things to do. I will try to convince you that the preferences you are attributing to "people" are unlikely to be universally accurate in describing "people". You should probably recalibrate your understanding of people's behavior, because when you understand what people actually want you're more capable of delivering things which both you and they will benefit from. I once thought that people hated getting email. I hated getting email. Except from, well, all the people I didn't hate getting email from. I have substantial evidence from clients and other people I find credible that people not only like getting email but will actually respond in predictable and positive fashions to the right email. I also have a stock of anecdotes which bewildered me when they happened, like people emailing me asking why I didn't send them a November BCC newsletter (Me, mentally: "Don't you know its going to be the October one with gsub applied to it?" Her, literally: "I really really really want to hear about Thanksgiving bingo." Me: "Wait, people pay me money for that all the time, how did I not see that sentence coming.") There are almost certainly people in the world whose preferences are more similar to you, in that they would not like to get emailed by me. That's cool. They should not give me their email address and instead do something they would prefer. Cat videos or something, whatever.
      - spitfire 14y ago
        You've misunderstood me. I love getting mail. If you're going to make a list full of useful information sign me up! In fact I'm subscribed to a few lists that I really enjoy reading every month. So I'm not against email. But don't bait, "force", or use subterfuge to get me to sign up. "first five minutes free!" doesn't do your brand any good.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        tptacek 14y ago
        There is, as you pointed out, a (shady) implied back-door to getting the video without giving him your real email address. You can think of that as a kind of escape valve for the sentiment you're trying to express here. One caveat I think might apply to using that escape valve: if you're so upset by the idea of trading customer contacts for promised software value that you'd lie about your contact information, you probably won't get much value out of the 45 minutes of your life this video will consume. Patrick has thus done you a favor by demanding your email address; he's pre-screening you from the video to save you time.
        spitfire 14y ago
        It's funny. I see the clear value in what patrick is doing here. I respect Patrick (and yourself). I just don't like the approach he took. For that it seems I'm being told I'm not welcome. Perhaps this could be A/B tested.
        tptacek 14y ago
        Saying that once was fine. It was even somewhat helpful, as it gave Patrick an opportunity to clarify his strategy. Saying it repeatedly simply because Patrick does not agree with you is less fine. I hope it is a little unwelcome. You made your point. He made his. He's not going to do it your way. I think you should let it go now. I was also being sincere in my previous comment. This being how you really feel about Patrick trading email addresses for access to a video, I sincerely think you won't get much value from that particular video.
    - jplewicke 14y ago
      I've never been more excited to give a website my email. Half the reason I check HN these days is to see whether Patrick has posted anything interesting and actionable. If giving him my email and some money will incentivize him to take some time from his products and consulting to share what he's learned, that's a win in my book. I would have been glad to sign up even if the landing page had just been a text field to enter my email and a disclaimer saying "Every second email I sent you will be spam intended for Latvian philatelists.", so I think offering a 45 minute video and a transcript is a gracious touch beyond what Patrick needed for his email list MVP.
- Poiesis 14y ago
  To add to my earlier comment, I can confirm that it does in fact do what it says on the tin, so to speak. I signed up, got a confirmation email, confirmed, and got access. No spam deluge ensued; I'll be sure to update you as soon as this changes. Patrick, I did find that clicking the confirmation email link and then confirming gave me a page that said at the top "Confirm your email address! You have to click the confirm link in the email[...]". The supplementary "Did that already?" link worked fine; it was just slightly weird to get that message immediately after, you know, clicking the link.
  - patio11 14y ago
    Sorry about that: you were in a race with an HTTP request from MailChimp. You won the race (yay?), so when Rails generated that page for you, it was unaware that you'd confirmed. I'll try doing some AJAXiness to prevent that in the future, but it won't go live today.
patio11 14y ago
Short version: I decided to finally take advice I'll give to clients (and anyone else): if you have an audience, you want to get their email addresses so that you can contact them about things that are mutually interesting. After writing approximately four full-length novels worth of blog posts about software businesses, some people seem to be interested in hearing from me about them, but I have no way of knowing who they are or how to get in touch with them unless they contact me directly. So, I thought I'd start an email list. Just asking for email addresses seemed kind of boring, though, so I recorded a 45 minute video on improving the first run experience of software. (Something crazy like 40 ~ 60% of users will abandon an application after their first use of it. Track that stat and work on it and it will go down, which will make users happier and improve business results. For the topic treated at length, see the video.) Feel free to ask questions.
- GoatOfAplomb 14y ago
  Dude, I know you see "teaser" but I see "5 minutes with no demonstrated value." I'm convinced that the next 40 minutes of your video will have content that I could have just as easily consumed in blog format in about 45 seconds.
  - bmelton 14y ago
    I was going to post something about how Patrick probably doesn't need to post much of a teaser because frankly, name recognition alone is going to get him a ton of email addresses to play around with. Then, in lieu of responding blindly, I closed the window (because I hate responding when I feel like my answer is going to make me look like an asshole) and went to watch the video. With that, all I can say is that either we have different definitions of value, or perhaps you're not in his target demographic?
    - coderdude 14y ago
      Only a jackass registers a new account just to slam a person who actually creates value for people. He deserves an instaban, not validation through a response.
bignoggins 14y ago
I love how you are doing this literally the day after your microconf talk on collecting emails. On a side note you have an unhealthy obsession with red sweatshirts.
Poiesis 14y ago
It's pretty easy to give my address to someone who has earned my trust by building up a large deal of social capital. He has a fair amount of professional reputation to lose if he doesn't do what he says ("send you something interesting every few weeks"). And what if I'm wrong? What--maybe I have to click "spam" a few times? I mean, really--I sign up to a lot more dubious things than this.
swanson 14y ago
Could you add a volume control to the video player?
- patio11 14y ago
  Sure, done.
nwhitehead 14y ago
You should put the name "patio11" on the landing page. I saw the page, thought "maybe, not sure". After I saw the comments and realized this was you (patio11) I thought "heck yeah!" and signed up as fast as I could.
- patio11 14y ago
  D'oh. You're right. I assumed when designing the front page that folks would probably see it in a context that made it obvious that I was the guy in the Twilio jacket. I did a little rejiggering to make that more obvious without making it the me-me-me show.
pkamb 14y ago
> Something crazy like 40 ~ 60% of users will abandon an application after their first use of it. Track that stat. Any recommendations on how to do this for desktop software? Especially for the Mac App Store, where I basically get NO info about my users?
edanm 14y ago
Just wanted to say congrats to LeanDesigns getting into this video - I love the LeanDesigns product, and they definitely deserve praise. Way to go :)

34 points by route3 14y ago

You're wonderful patrick. But stop the signup rubbish. Just give us the video. You'll just be collecting throwaway accounts anyways.

patio11 14y ago
I just won a bet with three people on the contents of the first HN comment about this. Whee! Seriously, though: as an empirical prediction of human behavior, you're just wrong with regards to the last sentence. With regards to your desire to just get the video, I politely decline. If you don't want to give me your email address, cool. There's plenty of stuff you could watch on Youtube instead. My understanding is it typically features more kittens and less make-you-money.
- spitfire 14y ago
  There was never any doubt on that bet. Which is my point - it's an annoying behaviour. Yes, people will give you their email, but they won't like it. That damages your brand (just a little). EDIT: One technique that'd make this cool is to offer the full video for free, then give the option to sign up for more. Too many people have been burnt by teaser "sign up now for secret material" that turns out to be lame.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - patio11 14y ago
    I'm not going to try to convince you that your preferences are irrational, because I probably won't change your mind and have better things to do. I will try to convince you that the preferences you are attributing to "people" are unlikely to be universally accurate in describing "people". You should probably recalibrate your understanding of people's behavior, because when you understand what people actually want you're more capable of delivering things which both you and they will benefit from. I once thought that people hated getting email. I hated getting email. Except from, well, all the people I didn't hate getting email from. I have substantial evidence from clients and other people I find credible that people not only like getting email but will actually respond in predictable and positive fashions to the right email. I also have a stock of anecdotes which bewildered me when they happened, like people emailing me asking why I didn't send them a November BCC newsletter (Me, mentally: "Don't you know its going to be the October one with gsub applied to it?" Her, literally: "I really really really want to hear about Thanksgiving bingo." Me: "Wait, people pay me money for that all the time, how did I not see that sentence coming.") There are almost certainly people in the world whose preferences are more similar to you, in that they would not like to get emailed by me. That's cool. They should not give me their email address and instead do something they would prefer. Cat videos or something, whatever.
    - spitfire 14y ago
      You've misunderstood me. I love getting mail. If you're going to make a list full of useful information sign me up! In fact I'm subscribed to a few lists that I really enjoy reading every month. So I'm not against email. But don't bait, "force", or use subterfuge to get me to sign up. "first five minutes free!" doesn't do your brand any good.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - tptacek 14y ago
        There is, as you pointed out, a (shady) implied back-door to getting the video without giving him your real email address. You can think of that as a kind of escape valve for the sentiment you're trying to express here. One caveat I think might apply to using that escape valve: if you're so upset by the idea of trading customer contacts for promised software value that you'd lie about your contact information, you probably won't get much value out of the 45 minutes of your life this video will consume. Patrick has thus done you a favor by demanding your email address; he's pre-screening you from the video to save you time.
        spitfire 14y ago
        It's funny. I see the clear value in what patrick is doing here. I respect Patrick (and yourself). I just don't like the approach he took. For that it seems I'm being told I'm not welcome. Perhaps this could be A/B tested.
        tptacek 14y ago
        Saying that once was fine. It was even somewhat helpful, as it gave Patrick an opportunity to clarify his strategy. Saying it repeatedly simply because Patrick does not agree with you is less fine. I hope it is a little unwelcome. You made your point. He made his. He's not going to do it your way. I think you should let it go now. I was also being sincere in my previous comment. This being how you really feel about Patrick trading email addresses for access to a video, I sincerely think you won't get much value from that particular video.
  - jplewicke 14y ago
    I've never been more excited to give a website my email. Half the reason I check HN these days is to see whether Patrick has posted anything interesting and actionable. If giving him my email and some money will incentivize him to take some time from his products and consulting to share what he's learned, that's a win in my book. I would have been glad to sign up even if the landing page had just been a text field to enter my email and a disclaimer saying "Every second email I sent you will be spam intended for Latvian philatelists.", so I think offering a 45 minute video and a transcript is a gracious touch beyond what Patrick needed for his email list MVP.
Poiesis 14y ago
To add to my earlier comment, I can confirm that it does in fact do what it says on the tin, so to speak. I signed up, got a confirmation email, confirmed, and got access. No spam deluge ensued; I'll be sure to update you as soon as this changes. Patrick, I did find that clicking the confirmation email link and then confirming gave me a page that said at the top "Confirm your email address! You have to click the confirm link in the email[...]". The supplementary "Did that already?" link worked fine; it was just slightly weird to get that message immediately after, you know, clicking the link.
- patio11 14y ago
  Sorry about that: you were in a race with an HTTP request from MailChimp. You won the race (yay?), so when Rails generated that page for you, it was unaware that you'd confirmed. I'll try doing some AJAXiness to prevent that in the future, but it won't go live today.

patio11 14y ago

Short version: I decided to finally take advice I'll give to clients (and anyone else): if you have an audience, you want to get their email addresses so that you can contact them about things that are mutually interesting. After writing approximately four full-length novels worth of blog posts about software businesses, some people seem to be interested in hearing from me about them, but I have no way of knowing who they are or how to get in touch with them unless they contact me directly. So, I thought I'd start an email list. Just asking for email addresses seemed kind of boring, though, so I recorded a 45 minute video on improving the first run experience of software. (Something crazy like 40 ~ 60% of users will abandon an application after their first use of it. Track that stat and work on it and it will go down, which will make users happier and improve business results. For the topic treated at length, see the video.) Feel free to ask questions.

GoatOfAplomb 14y ago
Dude, I know you see "teaser" but I see "5 minutes with no demonstrated value." I'm convinced that the next 40 minutes of your video will have content that I could have just as easily consumed in blog format in about 45 seconds.
- bmelton 14y ago
  I was going to post something about how Patrick probably doesn't need to post much of a teaser because frankly, name recognition alone is going to get him a ton of email addresses to play around with. Then, in lieu of responding blindly, I closed the window (because I hate responding when I feel like my answer is going to make me look like an asshole) and went to watch the video. With that, all I can say is that either we have different definitions of value, or perhaps you're not in his target demographic?
  - coderdude 14y ago
    Only a jackass registers a new account just to slam a person who actually creates value for people. He deserves an instaban, not validation through a response.

bignoggins 14y ago

I love how you are doing this literally the day after your microconf talk on collecting emails. On a side note you have an unhealthy obsession with red sweatshirts.

Poiesis 14y ago

It's pretty easy to give my address to someone who has earned my trust by building up a large deal of social capital. He has a fair amount of professional reputation to lose if he doesn't do what he says ("send you something interesting every few weeks"). And what if I'm wrong? What--maybe I have to click "spam" a few times? I mean, really--I sign up to a lot more dubious things than this.

swanson 14y ago

Could you add a volume control to the video player?

patio11 14y ago
Sure, done.

nwhitehead 14y ago

You should put the name "patio11" on the landing page. I saw the page, thought "maybe, not sure". After I saw the comments and realized this was you (patio11) I thought "heck yeah!" and signed up as fast as I could.

patio11 14y ago
D'oh. You're right. I assumed when designing the front page that folks would probably see it in a context that made it obvious that I was the guy in the Twilio jacket. I did a little rejiggering to make that more obvious without making it the me-me-me show.

pkamb 14y ago

> Something crazy like 40 ~ 60% of users will abandon an application after their first use of it. Track that stat. Any recommendations on how to do this for desktop software? Especially for the Mac App Store, where I basically get NO info about my users?

edanm 14y ago

Just wanted to say congrats to LeanDesigns getting into this video - I love the LeanDesigns product, and they definitely deserve praise. Way to go :)