4 ms·

Carpenter v. United States (2018) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States "in Carpen

Carpenter v. United States (2018) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States "in Carpenter the court determined that the third-party doctrine could not be extended to historical cell site location information (CSLI)" Cell towers aren't a free market. Go ahead, try setting one up without involving the government. Cell towers are a massively-regulated sector that has collapsed into a trigopoly. The supreme court recognized this in 2018. Highly-regulated, highly-concentrated telecommunications carriers are, for purposes of the fourth amendment, treated as being part of the government. Hopefully the same reasoning will be applied to banking (another highly-regulated, highly-concentrated, surveillance industry), but the court hasn't done that yet.

chiefalchemist 3y ago
And yet the same three-letter intelligence agency hoovered up tons of phone meta data and...nothing happened legally to stop that. In fact, the whistle blower had to flee the country under a POTUS who expanded the reach of The Patriot Act. Also, that telecommunications data was a direct dump to the NSA. This other data is for sale on the open market. Anyone with the money can buy it. Hard to imagine 4A protects that which was legally acquired and being resold. If there's legal precedent to prevent this stuff it must be on holiday.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > nothing happened This is untrue. Legally and politically.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Snowden is still considered a criminal. Again, politically, it was the same POTUS who extended and expanded the Patriot Act, and got zero - or close - push back for both efforts. Legally? Does it matter? When was the last time the law stopped the NSA from pushing - and breaking - the envelope? Aside from Snowden, who suffered? Hint: No one. Nuff said.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Legally? Does it matter? Yes. Funding was shifted and practices changed. > Aside from Snowden, who suffered? Hint: No one. Nuff said Retribution isn’t the sole measure of progress.
ethanbond 3y ago
Whoa whoa, the Carpenter ruling has nothing to do with govt involvement in cell towers nor with the trigopoly. It has to do with two things: cell towers collect so much highly-personal info, and, more importantly, you have to have a cellphone to live in modern America.
- crotchfire 3y ago
  > Whoa whoa, You sound like Michael Hayden when you say that. It's about centralization and regulation.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    It literally is not. Read the opinion. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14655974745807704559&q=138+S.+Ct.+2206&hl=en&as_sdt=6,39 https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=146559747458077... Centralization or regulation or government involvement in cell towers etc etc is not mentioned even once, not even obliquely. It is totally and completely irrelevant.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

And yet the same three-letter intelligence agency hoovered up tons of phone meta data and...nothing happened legally to stop that. In fact, the whistle blower had to flee the country under a POTUS who expanded the reach of The Patriot Act. Also, that telecommunications data was a direct dump to the NSA. This other data is for sale on the open market. Anyone with the money can buy it. Hard to imagine 4A protects that which was legally acquired and being resold. If there's legal precedent to prevent this stuff it must be on holiday.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> nothing happened This is untrue. Legally and politically.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Snowden is still considered a criminal. Again, politically, it was the same POTUS who extended and expanded the Patriot Act, and got zero - or close - push back for both efforts. Legally? Does it matter? When was the last time the law stopped the NSA from pushing - and breaking - the envelope? Aside from Snowden, who suffered? Hint: No one. Nuff said.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Legally? Does it matter? Yes. Funding was shifted and practices changed. > Aside from Snowden, who suffered? Hint: No one. Nuff said Retribution isn’t the sole measure of progress.

ethanbond 3y ago

Whoa whoa, the Carpenter ruling has nothing to do with govt involvement in cell towers nor with the trigopoly. It has to do with two things: cell towers collect so much highly-personal info, and, more importantly, you have to have a cellphone to live in modern America.

crotchfire 3y ago
> Whoa whoa, You sound like Michael Hayden when you say that. It's about centralization and regulation.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  It literally is not. Read the opinion. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14655974745807704559&q=138+S.+Ct.+2206&hl=en&as_sdt=6,39 https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=146559747458077... Centralization or regulation or government involvement in cell towers etc etc is not mentioned even once, not even obliquely. It is totally and completely irrelevant.