4 ms·

How about making satellite phones illegal and then put anyone with one in prison. Allows them to arbitrarily put opponents in prison.

xarope 3y ago
Not just china, but certain parts of india, e.g. Ladakh, also ban satellite phones (and yes, will jail you if found with one).
kalleboo 3y ago
These new systems work with any standard 5G phone
- rusk 3y ago
  “All authorised phones must have this feature disabled”
  - joecool1029 3y ago
    Like the US does with Beidou GNSS receivers. Know how pretty much every flagship phone advertises support for it? Can't use in the US, blocked by geofence set at firmware level. Take the device outside of the geofence and it'll see them.
    - aftbit 3y ago
      Really? Why? What's the problem with using multiple GNSS constellations? They're receive-only. My phone definitely supports GLONASS but I hadn't checked Beidou.
      - joecool1029 3y ago
        (sorry for late response, maybe you'll still catch it) There's not a technical problem using multiple GNSS constellations. Officially the US had some treaty with Russia to allow use of GLONASS as a second constellation. Later on Galileo became the next constellation approved through a civil route, not a treaty. China's BeiDou would have to probably be approved through a treaty since it's run by their military, it's not going to happen. I've been told by someone who used to work at space force that beidou can be used to track users, but that's bullshit with how our receivers use it. Here's a US gov report on the matter, if it's receive only (no messaging component) tracking isn't going to happen https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Staff%20Report_China%27s%20Alternative%20to%20GPS%20and%20Implications%20for%20the%20United%20States.pdf https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Staff%20Re... Finally, the way at least Qualcomm receivers work is they will only lock to GPS first and then mix in the other constellations (at least while in CONUS).
        aftbit 3y ago
        Thank you for the response anyway! I do review my comments every so often to catch these. How do you know so much about GPS and how can I learn more? :) Also, is there any hope for "authenticated GPS" to prevent spoofing? Is that even technically possible for non-secret codes like C/A or L5?
  - lxgr 3y ago
    It's not a feature, though. It looks like a regular old 4G/5G network to the phone. I could see such a regulation be implemented for new phones (Apple's Globalstar functionality is already deactivated in software based on geolocation in non-supported countries and maybe even in hardware for models sold in some regions), but it won't help with existing devices. Another avenue would be restricting access to SIMs capable of logging on to these networks. SIMs have supported mutual authentication since (I believe) 3G, so it's not possible for a satellite 4G service to provide "unilateral roaming".
    - rusk 3y ago
      Yes you are right actually, prohibition would need to be done at the SIM. Contraband much harder to detect.
checkyoursudo 3y ago
But if you are going to go this far, then you can just put anyone in prison for any reason anyway.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  An advantage to a law which is widely flauted is that it gives arbitrary pretext to apprehend or detain any given person. Those who are, at least for now, within good graces are of course exempted. Those who are systematically repressed can be systematically, specifically, and/or arbitrarily detained, investigated, and/or prosecuted, as suits political needs. And the fact that the actions are based on at least nominal basis in law and procedure means that the practice is defensible both to those tasked with enacting it and with the institutions and general public. Even tyrants find that power is best and most readily exerted through cooperating and existing channels.
  - shrx 3y ago
    > An advantage to a law which is widely flauted is that it gives arbitrary pretext to apprehend or detain any given person. A prime example: On a highway leading from Chechnya to Dagestan there is a traffic light. It is always red. https://en.rattibha.com/thread/1595456040677556226 https://en.rattibha.com/thread/1595456040677556226
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      That is an excellent example of a terrifying instance, thanks!

xarope 3y ago

Not just china, but certain parts of india, e.g. Ladakh, also ban satellite phones (and yes, will jail you if found with one).

kalleboo 3y ago

These new systems work with any standard 5G phone

rusk 3y ago
“All authorised phones must have this feature disabled”
- joecool1029 3y ago
  Like the US does with Beidou GNSS receivers. Know how pretty much every flagship phone advertises support for it? Can't use in the US, blocked by geofence set at firmware level. Take the device outside of the geofence and it'll see them.
  - aftbit 3y ago
    Really? Why? What's the problem with using multiple GNSS constellations? They're receive-only. My phone definitely supports GLONASS but I hadn't checked Beidou.
    - joecool1029 3y ago
      (sorry for late response, maybe you'll still catch it) There's not a technical problem using multiple GNSS constellations. Officially the US had some treaty with Russia to allow use of GLONASS as a second constellation. Later on Galileo became the next constellation approved through a civil route, not a treaty. China's BeiDou would have to probably be approved through a treaty since it's run by their military, it's not going to happen. I've been told by someone who used to work at space force that beidou can be used to track users, but that's bullshit with how our receivers use it. Here's a US gov report on the matter, if it's receive only (no messaging component) tracking isn't going to happen https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Staff%20Report_China%27s%20Alternative%20to%20GPS%20and%20Implications%20for%20the%20United%20States.pdf https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Staff%20Re... Finally, the way at least Qualcomm receivers work is they will only lock to GPS first and then mix in the other constellations (at least while in CONUS).
      - aftbit 3y ago
        Thank you for the response anyway! I do review my comments every so often to catch these. How do you know so much about GPS and how can I learn more? :) Also, is there any hope for "authenticated GPS" to prevent spoofing? Is that even technically possible for non-secret codes like C/A or L5?
- lxgr 3y ago
  It's not a feature, though. It looks like a regular old 4G/5G network to the phone. I could see such a regulation be implemented for new phones (Apple's Globalstar functionality is already deactivated in software based on geolocation in non-supported countries and maybe even in hardware for models sold in some regions), but it won't help with existing devices. Another avenue would be restricting access to SIMs capable of logging on to these networks. SIMs have supported mutual authentication since (I believe) 3G, so it's not possible for a satellite 4G service to provide "unilateral roaming".
  - rusk 3y ago
    Yes you are right actually, prohibition would need to be done at the SIM. Contraband much harder to detect.

checkyoursudo 3y ago

But if you are going to go this far, then you can just put anyone in prison for any reason anyway.

dredmorbius 3y ago
An advantage to a law which is widely flauted is that it gives arbitrary pretext to apprehend or detain any given person. Those who are, at least for now, within good graces are of course exempted. Those who are systematically repressed can be systematically, specifically, and/or arbitrarily detained, investigated, and/or prosecuted, as suits political needs. And the fact that the actions are based on at least nominal basis in law and procedure means that the practice is defensible both to those tasked with enacting it and with the institutions and general public. Even tyrants find that power is best and most readily exerted through cooperating and existing channels.
- shrx 3y ago
  > An advantage to a law which is widely flauted is that it gives arbitrary pretext to apprehend or detain any given person. A prime example: On a highway leading from Chechnya to Dagestan there is a traffic light. It is always red. https://en.rattibha.com/thread/1595456040677556226 https://en.rattibha.com/thread/1595456040677556226
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    That is an excellent example of a terrifying instance, thanks!