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What can they do if Starlink doesn't obey them? Shoot them down with rockets?
by system2 3y ago
What can they do if Starlink doesn't obey them? Shoot them down with rockets?
- losteric 3y agoJamming or triangulate the phones? Also yes, anti satellite weapons.
- kube-system 3y agoOr physically targeting the base stations or people who possess them.
- bagels 3y agoLet's take China for instance. They can prosecute the the customers, interfere with the communications, prevent the building of or seize the ground stations (eventually the laser links could get around that), can blow the satelites up with missiles (though that is not likely), and in general prevent any future authorized business that Starlink might want to do. If I were in charge, I'd try to get licensed and be able to collect money from customers there.
- wkat4242 3y agoEven India forbids sat phones except Inmarsat which they can monitor. But that's only one of the many networks. You can get in real trouble with one. I wonder what will happen now that every phone will become a sat phone.
- dilyevsky 3y agoSame as with drones - vendors will geofence them
- kelnos 3y ago> I wonder what will happen now that every phone will become a sat phone. Governments that don't want that will disallow the sale of such phones inside their country unless the manufacturer disables the satellite features for customers there. Sure, some will get through via illegal imports, but largely this will be effective.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoUntil someone 'accidentally' releases update that enables feature and now you have a critical mass that you can't enforce laws on..?
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y agoCan’t enforce laws? Nerds will look for any opening for a techno-anarchist utopia. Most people are going to give up their phone when even remotely threatened. Before things even get to that point, there are lots of other levers to pull to stop people from getting access to an (esp. paid) service.
- lupusreal 3y agoYou know how 911 works without a valid cell plan? Hypothetically, in the event of a war or similar unrest, the US could use satellite cell 'towers' to give an entire country limited connectivity with old devices people have stashed away in some drawer or closet without otherwise active cell plans, which are therefore off the local government's radar. People could be coerced to turn over the phones the government knows about but still retain some connectivity.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoSpeeding is illegal yet most people do it because it’s impossible to enforce. There are (and aren’t) tons of laws that are like that.
- wkat4242 3y agoThat's what they did up to now but that doesn't work anymore. Starlink direct to cell works with any unmodified smartphone. They can't ban all of those and throw their country back 20 years :)
- bmicraft 3y agoI'll believe it when I see it.
- EdwardDiego 3y agoHuh? Any particular reason why?
- wkat4242 3y agoThey say it's for terrorism reasons. They consider them a 'threat to national security': https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-satellite-phones-in-declared-as-threat-to-national-security-1590901 https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-satellite-phones-in-de... Also: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/64974/why-are-satellite-phones-strictly-banned-in-india https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/64974/why-are-sat...
- callalex 3y agoBecause religiously motivated totalitarianism is a bad form of government.
- perihelions 3y ago- "Even India" India routinely does total communications blackouts, so the satellite phone ban is unsurprising, in that context. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20701204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20701204 ("India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10126931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10126931 ("India turned off mobile internet for 63M citizens amid protests in Ahmedabad") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25972620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25972620 ("India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932021_Jammu_and_Kashmir_lockdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932021_Jammu_and_Ka... ("2019–2021 Jammu and Kashmir lockdown") If you don't have enough things to worry about: the US has exactly the same legal powers—in fact they're national security powers the President can invoke unilaterally, https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/22/representatives-propose-bill-limiting-presidential-internet-kill-switch/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/22/representatives-propose-bi... ("Representatives propose bill limiting presidential internet ‘kill switch’")
- wkat4242 3y ago> If you don't have enough things to worry about: the US has exactly the same legal powers—in fact they're national security powers the President can invoke unilaterally, I'm not in the US so I don't worry about that. But the US doesn't seem to actually use it as India does. And besides I have other communications options if that would happen.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago[dead]
- LoveMortuus 3y agoTheoretically speaking, could you use high power lasers to overheat the satellites to the point that they break and permanently stop working? I've had this idea on my mind for quite a while now, because some time ago I heard something about Starlink painting their satellites black, which reminded me of the "it's hotter in a black car" thing.
- JoeDaDude 3y agoThere is a known threat in using lasers to damage the solar cells which would lead to the batteries fully discharging and the satellite becoming useless for lack of electrical power.
- generic92034 3y agoThreaten to ban Tesla from selling cars in their country? :)
- tremarley 3y agoTesla has a brand, technology, energy storage and cost MOAT over other EV companies. Countries that consider banning Tesla due to Starlink, would be effectively holding back their EV market.
- generic92034 3y agoI am not sure that is so relevant everywhere. I think I have read about Tesla having problems staying competitive in the Chinese EV market, for example.
- tremarley 3y agoThey’re MOAT isn’t incredibly effective in China. But it is effective in most other countries where they operate
- dandy23 3y agoHow about making satellite phones illegal and then put anyone with one in prison. Allows them to arbitrarily put opponents in prison.
- xarope 3y agoNot just china, but certain parts of india, e.g. Ladakh, also ban satellite phones (and yes, will jail you if found with one).
- kalleboo 3y agoThese new systems work with any standard 5G phone
- rusk 3y ago“All authorised phones must have this feature disabled”
- joecool1029 3y agoLike the US does with Beidou GNSS receivers. Know how pretty much every flagship phone advertises support for it? Can't use in the US, blocked by geofence set at firmware level. Take the device outside of the geofence and it'll see them.
- aftbit 3y agoReally? Why? What's the problem with using multiple GNSS constellations? They're receive-only. My phone definitely supports GLONASS but I hadn't checked Beidou.
- joecool1029 3y ago(sorry for late response, maybe you'll still catch it) There's not a technical problem using multiple GNSS constellations. Officially the US had some treaty with Russia to allow use of GLONASS as a second constellation. Later on Galileo became the next constellation approved through a civil route, not a treaty. China's BeiDou would have to probably be approved through a treaty since it's run by their military, it's not going to happen. I've been told by someone who used to work at space force that beidou can be used to track users, but that's bullshit with how our receivers use it. Here's a US gov report on the matter, if it's receive only (no messaging component) tracking isn't going to happen https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Staff%20Report_China%27s%20Alternative%20to%20GPS%20and%20Implications%20for%20the%20United%20States.pdf https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Staff%20Re... Finally, the way at least Qualcomm receivers work is they will only lock to GPS first and then mix in the other constellations (at least while in CONUS).
- KennyBlanken 3y agoBeat/imprison/murder/'re-educate' anyone who is found to be in possession of the dish? That said the only people who will be able to afford the dish and service will likely be people who are in bed with the government or vise-versa...
- inemesitaffia 3y agoThis is about phones
- marsokod 3y agoThey can make SpaceX life hell through the ITU. Eventually SpaceX can only operate if they get the licences to operate, and if they bypass this, they would show that they have a disregard of RF regulations and this will be used against them the next time they need to get/renew a licence.
- 127361 3y agoI wonder if SpaceX has enough clout to influence the ITU decisions somehow, through political lobbying, for example?
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y agoMaybe in the eyes of an Elon Musk fetishist. Realistically, no.
- inemesitaffia 3y agoThe USG does
- mrtksn 3y agoMake the sales of Tesla hard to impossible, make the sales of minerals for Tesla cars hard to impossible. That's usually how governments control businesspeople.
- LoveMortuus 3y agoIf only the government could control the companies like 3M and the people behind it, that have been releasing toxic chemicals into the environment and killing people. How can these companies get away with murder while paying (relative) pocket change for their crimes? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/14/pfas-forever-chemicals-cancer/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/1... https://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/171701 https://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/171701 https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/toxic-secrets-the-town-that-3m-built-where-kids-are-dying-of-cancer-20180613-p4zl83.html https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/toxic-secrets-the...)
- mensetmanusman 3y agoYou mean the government requiring militaries train with too much pfas (for missile explosion control) and no effort towards mitigation decades before the technology existed to even detect the presence of trace amounts (due to pfas being a ww2 classified technology)? Sounds like standard live and learn tech development, like nuclear.
- tremarley 3y agoThere is corruption in every country.
- throwaway2037 3y agoOk, please tell us about the corruption in Norway and New Zealand? Please provide specific examples.
- barrysteve 3y agoMake it socially unacceptable for anyone to use foreign electronics and scan the RF spectrum for unathorized devices. It's not that hard if you're really committed and can accept chasing up offenders after-the-fact.
- zeteo 3y agoChina, Russia and India have successfully tested anti-satellite weapons. Considering that Iran and North Korea have recently been able to acquire some pretty advanced Russian missiles, it might not be that hard for other countries to obtain them.