4 ms·

Larger antennas and better beamforming are routing calls through orbit

by frasermarlow 3y ago

hackernewds 3y ago
[flagged]
- kelnos 3y ago
  Probably nothing. I know I sound a little cavalier here, but c'mon, if you're going to repeat the "oh noes, radio waves are giving me $TERRIBLE_DISEASE!" conspiracy theory stuff, you gotta provide some peer-reviewed, replicable (and replicated) research to back it up. We've had a huge variety of radio frequencies shooting through various layers of the atmosphere for generations at this point. Sure, some frequencies have only been around and pervasive relatively recently, and we should be watching for longer-term effects. But there's nothing reputable to suggest that the stuff floating around now is unsafe. For reference, the stuff coming down from satellites is much lower frequency (usually IEEE L-band; 1-2GHz) than even WiFi (IEEE S & C bands). Sure, power levels are a bit higher -- though significantly attenuated by the time it gets to ground level -- but if WiFi isn't causing problems, it's vanishingly unlikely that satellite transmissions would be dangerous to humans. To summarize: I'd be more worried about sunburn and skin cancer when I forget to put sunblock on in the summer.
  - nntwozz 3y ago
    Just wait until the plebeians find out about neutrinos.
    - xarope 3y ago
      sir, put down that radioactive banana and step away slowly (apologies if someone has already put this up: https://xkcd.com/radiation/ https://xkcd.com/radiation/)
  - pests 3y ago
    We have some things happening like decreased sperm counts, lowering of IQ, increased prevalence of certain diseases, etc. No one really knows what are causing them... Is there any chance, at all, it might be related to radio waves? Long term, generational effects. I do not personally believe it's possible or happening but I've always been a fan of conspiracy fiction.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Very likely there isn't, but if there was, I'd look at the transmitters right next to you, not at the ones hundreds of kilometers away in the sky. The radiation received from the former vs. the latter is so many orders of magnitude larger, the comparison only makes sense on a log scale – and even then it's very, very small. If you want to minimize the risk of adverse health effects, turn off your smartphone and computer (not because of the radiation, but because you'll be exposed to less worrying conspiracy theories).
    - audunw 3y ago
      Seems more likely that those are caused by things in our environment that we know are disruptive, like PFAS and certain plastic additives. Also bad diets and ultra processed food. There’s plenty of things to worry about where we do actually have studies showing they’re worth worrying about. Radio waves are basically proven safe by now. Like, think about it.. people now regularly sleeping with their phone right next to their head, and use Bluetooth headphones all day. They blast their entire house with Wi-Fi, Z-Wave, ZigBee and wireless speaker signals. If these radio waves were as bad as people thought some years ago we’d all be walking blobs of cancer by now.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      > Is there any chance, at all, it might be related to radio waves? I don't know, but throwing around FUD isn't going to teach us anything useful.
      - pests 3y ago
        Who is throwing around FUD? I said society has a couple mystery illnessess. Is that FUD? I asked if radio might be causing something on the level of generations. Is that FUD? Is it not okay to ask questions and be curious?
  - lxgr 3y ago
    > Sure, power levels are a bit higher Quite the contrary: Power levels are just as high as they need to be for phones to still be able to receive them. We're talking dozens of watt of transmission power spread over hundreds of square kilometers. That's microwatts per square meter, of non-ionizing radiation no less. It's not even worth thinking about.
- lxgr 3y ago
  Given the transmission powers and distances involved and the fact that it's non-ionizing radiation, you're probably more likely to develop skin cancer from the UV radiation reflected by the full moon than to experience any type of effect from these satellite-based cell towers.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Signals at 1000 Terahertz should definitely be avoided. It is rather unfortunate that they're broadcast so strongly around the entire globe on a daily basis. Stick to signals below 790Thz and they're generally pretty safe as long as the power isn't high enough to cause burns.
  - ivandenysov 3y ago
    There are places where you can avoid this radiation for half a year. But they are pretty cold.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      If you are interested, I can sell you a natural mineral cream to apply to your skin which will block the signals from modifying your DNA.
      - freedomben 3y ago
        I'm interested, but you should create some sort of measurement system so I know how strong the cream is. Maybe something like "Spectral Prophylactic Filtration" or "SPF" for short
akira2501 3y ago
Calls have been routed through orbit from handheld devices for decades now. Ironically, Iridium used SpaceX to launch one of their recent LEO constellations. This seems to be strictly about high data rate applications and the certainly soon to be extremely goofy world of "6G."
- lxgr 3y ago
  Not yet. For now, "direct-to-cell" and its competitors are all about text/voice/low-data-rate applications in areas that so far haven't had any coverage at all, given the extremely low signal strength involved due to the extreme distances, low transmission powers, and omnidirectional device antennas.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellatio... Launched 1998.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      Yes, I’ve used it myself :) That’s the type of service these new services are going to be providing in their first phase, just (if all goes well) with unmodified mobile devices. I’d guess we’re some time away from broadband data to unmodified phones, but in the end, it’s just a function of available power per square meter in the downlink, i.e. how many satellites can be launched and how tightly their beams can be focused, and of reflector size in the uplink (since the transmit power of 4G/5G devices is fixed at about 1-2% that of Iridium).
      - piltdownman 3y ago
        Supposedly ASTS SpaceMobile have achieved broadband data to unmodified phones months ago, although they've provided no evidence of such other than a few PR photos and some fairly light-weight tweets from their partners such as AT&T and Vodafone.
- 3y ago

Larger antennas and better beamforming are routing calls through orbit

hackernewds 3y ago

[flagged]

kelnos 3y ago
Probably nothing. I know I sound a little cavalier here, but c'mon, if you're going to repeat the "oh noes, radio waves are giving me $TERRIBLE_DISEASE!" conspiracy theory stuff, you gotta provide some peer-reviewed, replicable (and replicated) research to back it up. We've had a huge variety of radio frequencies shooting through various layers of the atmosphere for generations at this point. Sure, some frequencies have only been around and pervasive relatively recently, and we should be watching for longer-term effects. But there's nothing reputable to suggest that the stuff floating around now is unsafe. For reference, the stuff coming down from satellites is much lower frequency (usually IEEE L-band; 1-2GHz) than even WiFi (IEEE S & C bands). Sure, power levels are a bit higher -- though significantly attenuated by the time it gets to ground level -- but if WiFi isn't causing problems, it's vanishingly unlikely that satellite transmissions would be dangerous to humans. To summarize: I'd be more worried about sunburn and skin cancer when I forget to put sunblock on in the summer.
- nntwozz 3y ago
  Just wait until the plebeians find out about neutrinos.
  - xarope 3y ago
    sir, put down that radioactive banana and step away slowly (apologies if someone has already put this up: https://xkcd.com/radiation/ https://xkcd.com/radiation/)
- pests 3y ago
  We have some things happening like decreased sperm counts, lowering of IQ, increased prevalence of certain diseases, etc. No one really knows what are causing them... Is there any chance, at all, it might be related to radio waves? Long term, generational effects. I do not personally believe it's possible or happening but I've always been a fan of conspiracy fiction.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Very likely there isn't, but if there was, I'd look at the transmitters right next to you, not at the ones hundreds of kilometers away in the sky. The radiation received from the former vs. the latter is so many orders of magnitude larger, the comparison only makes sense on a log scale – and even then it's very, very small. If you want to minimize the risk of adverse health effects, turn off your smartphone and computer (not because of the radiation, but because you'll be exposed to less worrying conspiracy theories).
  - audunw 3y ago
    Seems more likely that those are caused by things in our environment that we know are disruptive, like PFAS and certain plastic additives. Also bad diets and ultra processed food. There’s plenty of things to worry about where we do actually have studies showing they’re worth worrying about. Radio waves are basically proven safe by now. Like, think about it.. people now regularly sleeping with their phone right next to their head, and use Bluetooth headphones all day. They blast their entire house with Wi-Fi, Z-Wave, ZigBee and wireless speaker signals. If these radio waves were as bad as people thought some years ago we’d all be walking blobs of cancer by now.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    > Is there any chance, at all, it might be related to radio waves? I don't know, but throwing around FUD isn't going to teach us anything useful.
    - pests 3y ago
      Who is throwing around FUD? I said society has a couple mystery illnessess. Is that FUD? I asked if radio might be causing something on the level of generations. Is that FUD? Is it not okay to ask questions and be curious?
- lxgr 3y ago
  > Sure, power levels are a bit higher Quite the contrary: Power levels are just as high as they need to be for phones to still be able to receive them. We're talking dozens of watt of transmission power spread over hundreds of square kilometers. That's microwatts per square meter, of non-ionizing radiation no less. It's not even worth thinking about.
lxgr 3y ago
Given the transmission powers and distances involved and the fact that it's non-ionizing radiation, you're probably more likely to develop skin cancer from the UV radiation reflected by the full moon than to experience any type of effect from these satellite-based cell towers.
kube-system 3y ago
Signals at 1000 Terahertz should definitely be avoided. It is rather unfortunate that they're broadcast so strongly around the entire globe on a daily basis. Stick to signals below 790Thz and they're generally pretty safe as long as the power isn't high enough to cause burns.
- ivandenysov 3y ago
  There are places where you can avoid this radiation for half a year. But they are pretty cold.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    If you are interested, I can sell you a natural mineral cream to apply to your skin which will block the signals from modifying your DNA.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      I'm interested, but you should create some sort of measurement system so I know how strong the cream is. Maybe something like "Spectral Prophylactic Filtration" or "SPF" for short

akira2501 3y ago

Calls have been routed through orbit from handheld devices for decades now. Ironically, Iridium used SpaceX to launch one of their recent LEO constellations. This seems to be strictly about high data rate applications and the certainly soon to be extremely goofy world of "6G."

lxgr 3y ago
Not yet. For now, "direct-to-cell" and its competitors are all about text/voice/low-data-rate applications in areas that so far haven't had any coverage at all, given the extremely low signal strength involved due to the extreme distances, low transmission powers, and omnidirectional device antennas.
- akira2501 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_satellite_constellatio... Launched 1998.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Yes, I’ve used it myself :) That’s the type of service these new services are going to be providing in their first phase, just (if all goes well) with unmodified mobile devices. I’d guess we’re some time away from broadband data to unmodified phones, but in the end, it’s just a function of available power per square meter in the downlink, i.e. how many satellites can be launched and how tightly their beams can be focused, and of reflector size in the uplink (since the transmit power of 4G/5G devices is fixed at about 1-2% that of Iridium).
    - piltdownman 3y ago
      Supposedly ASTS SpaceMobile have achieved broadband data to unmodified phones months ago, although they've provided no evidence of such other than a few PR photos and some fairly light-weight tweets from their partners such as AT&T and Vodafone.
3y ago