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Some pushback on your logic chain: > foreigners with special skills that can't be found amongst US citizens This is honestly rare, unless you couple it with a

by tomrod 3y ago

Some pushback on your logic chain: > foreigners with special skills that can't be found amongst US citizens This is honestly rare, unless you couple it with a wage level that is lower than the domestic market will bear. Some individuals involved in R&D, but outside of that there are few skills that are not found in the US. I believe the condition isn't not found, but rather, in low supply? > make the visa transferrable if another company wants to take it over after say the first two years at the same or better salary. This would be a huge boon.

ojbyrne 3y ago
H1Bs are transferrable. I did it at least twice.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Transfers are cap-exempt, but the new employer still needs to file LCA and hence do the prevailing wage determination. You're effectively applying for a new H-1B for the balance of the time remaining on the first one, exempt from the cap. [1] [1] https://flag.dol.gov/programs/LCA https://flag.dol.gov/programs/LCA
nine_k 3y ago
The foreigners with special skills for which it's really hard to hire someone in the US, even for a lot of money. Maybe if you agree to pay $1M / mo, you'll have them leave their current jobs and flock to you, but will your business still stay profitable? Hence the idea of prevailing wage, and paying somehow above that. This of course creates an avenue to game the system, because prevailing wage for basically any work in SF or NYC is likely higher than on average over the entire US. You can undercut local markets a bit by bringing in smart people from abroad, and paying them less than they would make in SF or NYC if hired as locals, but more that the country-wide average. (Smart, hard-working, educated people from underprivileged places get a chance of having a better life while working to improve the US economy! What's not to like?)
- remarkEon 3y ago
  I'm a little confused with your logic here. You're saying that businesses are looking for these allegedly rare skill sets, which do exist in the US but only at excessively high wages (your "$1M / mo" hypothetical/exaggeration). So the solution is to bring in H1Bs and pay them less (or what's affordable for the company). How does this not, by definition, depress what would otherwise be the prevailing wage for these "rare" skill sets in the US?
- rayiner 3y ago
  > Smart, hard-working, educated people from underprivileged places get a chance of having a better life while working to improve the US economy! What's not to like? Lots of things if people thought about it for more than 10 seconds. Why do you think the US has such uniquely bad work life balance even in white collar sectors? And those educated people are in the top 1-2% of their home countries. What’s it going to your country to import a bunch of foreign elites with chips on their shoulder? If what you care about is maximizing profits for Fortune 500 companies, then yeah, maybe it’s a good thing.
hirvi74 3y ago
In my experience, the special skills that many foreigners tend to have that many Americans do not is the ability to tolerate absolute and utter bullshit. I'm not kidding. I am not satisfied with my job/employer -- bad environment, bad culture, etc.. I have coworkers from all over. Of the non-US native ones that I interact with, they all absolutely love our job and/or employer. I've asked them about it, and I generally get the sense that I could not survive in the conditions from which they originally came -- both at work and outside of work. If a dumb drone like me could figure that out, then I am sure plenty of employers found out long before me.
- bilekas 3y ago
  > In my experience, the special skills that many foreigners tend to have that many Americans do not is the ability to tolerate absolute and utter bullshit. I'm not kidding. This actually made me giggle a little bit and while I have seen this, what I've seen more of is that a company hiring internally has offshore employees who have a vast amount of company specific info and experience that the company simply can't hire for. That only applies to internal transfers of course but it's what I see the most of.
  - p_l 3y ago
    Internal transfers that have such knowledge don't go on H-1B though, but L-1B
    - bilekas 3y ago
      Ah okay, I haven't done the process myself so mixed it up! Good to know though !
      - p_l 3y ago
        It's how big tech with multinational offices manages to handle lack of enough H-1B, among other things. You hire someone in local office for a year, then arrange L-1B visa which has no numerical issuance limits - but requires at least one year of previous employment with the company sponsoring the visa. There's also L-1A which IIRC doesn't require time in company but is limited only to upper management in practice.
pyuser583 3y ago
Experienced coders don’t magically appear because salaries go up.
- hcks 3y ago
  They actually do?
Glyptodon 3y ago
Low supply should mean that it's not available unless wages are a lot more above market. Which lives well with highest pay first.

by tomrod 3y ago

ojbyrne 3y ago

H1Bs are transferrable. I did it at least twice.

arcticbull 3y ago
Transfers are cap-exempt, but the new employer still needs to file LCA and hence do the prevailing wage determination. You're effectively applying for a new H-1B for the balance of the time remaining on the first one, exempt from the cap. [1] [1] https://flag.dol.gov/programs/LCA https://flag.dol.gov/programs/LCA

nine_k 3y ago

The foreigners with special skills for which it's really hard to hire someone in the US, even for a lot of money. Maybe if you agree to pay $1M / mo, you'll have them leave their current jobs and flock to you, but will your business still stay profitable? Hence the idea of prevailing wage, and paying somehow above that. This of course creates an avenue to game the system, because prevailing wage for basically any work in SF or NYC is likely higher than on average over the entire US. You can undercut local markets a bit by bringing in smart people from abroad, and paying them less than they would make in SF or NYC if hired as locals, but more that the country-wide average. (Smart, hard-working, educated people from underprivileged places get a chance of having a better life while working to improve the US economy! What's not to like?)

remarkEon 3y ago
I'm a little confused with your logic here. You're saying that businesses are looking for these allegedly rare skill sets, which do exist in the US but only at excessively high wages (your "$1M / mo" hypothetical/exaggeration). So the solution is to bring in H1Bs and pay them less (or what's affordable for the company). How does this not, by definition, depress what would otherwise be the prevailing wage for these "rare" skill sets in the US?
rayiner 3y ago
> Smart, hard-working, educated people from underprivileged places get a chance of having a better life while working to improve the US economy! What's not to like? Lots of things if people thought about it for more than 10 seconds. Why do you think the US has such uniquely bad work life balance even in white collar sectors? And those educated people are in the top 1-2% of their home countries. What’s it going to your country to import a bunch of foreign elites with chips on their shoulder? If what you care about is maximizing profits for Fortune 500 companies, then yeah, maybe it’s a good thing.

hirvi74 3y ago

In my experience, the special skills that many foreigners tend to have that many Americans do not is the ability to tolerate absolute and utter bullshit. I'm not kidding. I am not satisfied with my job/employer -- bad environment, bad culture, etc.. I have coworkers from all over. Of the non-US native ones that I interact with, they all absolutely love our job and/or employer. I've asked them about it, and I generally get the sense that I could not survive in the conditions from which they originally came -- both at work and outside of work. If a dumb drone like me could figure that out, then I am sure plenty of employers found out long before me.

bilekas 3y ago
> In my experience, the special skills that many foreigners tend to have that many Americans do not is the ability to tolerate absolute and utter bullshit. I'm not kidding. This actually made me giggle a little bit and while I have seen this, what I've seen more of is that a company hiring internally has offshore employees who have a vast amount of company specific info and experience that the company simply can't hire for. That only applies to internal transfers of course but it's what I see the most of.
- p_l 3y ago
  Internal transfers that have such knowledge don't go on H-1B though, but L-1B
  - bilekas 3y ago
    Ah okay, I haven't done the process myself so mixed it up! Good to know though !
    - p_l 3y ago
      It's how big tech with multinational offices manages to handle lack of enough H-1B, among other things. You hire someone in local office for a year, then arrange L-1B visa which has no numerical issuance limits - but requires at least one year of previous employment with the company sponsoring the visa. There's also L-1A which IIRC doesn't require time in company but is limited only to upper management in practice.

pyuser583 3y ago

Experienced coders don’t magically appear because salaries go up.

hcks 3y ago
They actually do?

Glyptodon 3y ago

Low supply should mean that it's not available unless wages are a lot more above market. Which lives well with highest pay first.