4 ms·

to anyone that has not used it, dart is an excellent language * instant compilation * amazing tooling * null safety * typed I could go on.

packetlost 3y ago
I'm not really sure where it slots in in a world with a lot of programming language choices. Why would I use it over something like Rust, Go, or even JavaScript?
- jgalt212 3y ago
  Come for the Flutter, stay for the extras.
  - millsteed 3y ago
    Exactly. I use it for a full stack mobile app development. Backend and frontend can share code. Server can be compiled to a single machine code binary.
    - g00gler 3y ago
      That’s really interesting and compelling. What’s the rest of your backend stack look like? Do you get good performance from the database drivers written in dart?
- millsteed 3y ago
  I mainly just trust Bob Nystrom (https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=munificent https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=munificent) to keep this thing on the rails. He's an excellent language designer.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > Rust Dart has a GC. > Go Dart has exceptions. > JavaScript Dart is statically typed. --- Plus....Dart has a first-class mobile story, unlike Rust + Go. --- Hope that helps!
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    > Dart has a first-class mobile story, unlike Rust + Go Not really, the Android team doesn't even list it as supported language, a team that belongs to the same employeer. The same team not only lists Rust, it has official documentation on the Android site for OEMs, on how to use Rust.
- fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
  >Why would I use it over something like Rust, Go, or even JavaScript? Honestly, mainly for flutter. But if you do chose flutter for your project, you will suddenly wish everyone was using dart for everything else instead of Java on android, or c#/Swift on ios ect. if that makes sense. If sound type checking is truly feasible on the web then I'd say dart should be there too. But I can't say if that's really the case. At least ECMA seems to think it isn't, at least for js.
  - epcoa 3y ago
    > Java on android You mean Kotlin? Nah. Dart is ok. It doesn't perform as well as those peer languages. It's nice its FFI story is good, but the ecosystem is very weak even compared to Javascript. As for the tooling. It's decent. I wouldn't call it amazing, unless you come from systems that were anemic to begin with, then it seems pretty amazing. As for flutter. I recently installed it again. A test app with a single CupertinoTextField consumes 45% of an Intel core on a linux desktop (Wayland and X11 were similar). Like, goodbye. Maybe if WORA means iOS and Android, fine, I get that is the common use case. But that is wishful thinking to false advertising as far as I care. https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/125388 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/125388 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/101591 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/101591 (going on 2 years!) I also believe Google will shit can both this and Fuchsia, because Google is CADT baked into its organizational structure.
    - paulddraper 3y ago
      > consumes 45% of an Intel core on a linux desktop Like for 1ms? For a second? Eternally?
      - epcoa 3y ago
        Eternally, as long as that text field has focus with the animation of a blinking cursor. I'm not telling my customers to make sure they're not "holding it wrong" by deigning to leave the app in the foreground and killing their battery.
    - 3y ago
- david422 3y ago
  Basically seamless multiplatform targeting - iOS, macOS, Linux, Windows, Android, web
preommr 3y ago
Please do, because excluding minor exceptions, the more popular of recent programming languages have these as table stakes. Everything (even previously dynamic languages like python) has some form of static typing, options/null-safety, and really good tooling (ts ecosystem is huge, rust compiler has entire articles praising it for making people better programmers). Some languages might be slow to compile but have solutions like HMR for ts and are actively being improved in languages like rust.
- balencpp 3y ago
  Some form of static typing != proper static typing. The 'static typing' from Python (and other previously dynamic languages) do not come close to Dart's; neither does Typescript's. All forms of null-safety aren't the same. The ergonomics differ. Huge ecosystem != good tooling. But indeed, Rust has good tooling. Doesn't mean you can compare Rust to Dart though. Rust's compile-time is improving, but why are we bringing in future items for comparison?

packetlost 3y ago

I'm not really sure where it slots in in a world with a lot of programming language choices. Why would I use it over something like Rust, Go, or even JavaScript?

jgalt212 3y ago
Come for the Flutter, stay for the extras.
- millsteed 3y ago
  Exactly. I use it for a full stack mobile app development. Backend and frontend can share code. Server can be compiled to a single machine code binary.
  - g00gler 3y ago
    That’s really interesting and compelling. What’s the rest of your backend stack look like? Do you get good performance from the database drivers written in dart?
millsteed 3y ago
I mainly just trust Bob Nystrom (https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=munificent https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=munificent) to keep this thing on the rails. He's an excellent language designer.
paulddraper 3y ago
> Rust Dart has a GC. > Go Dart has exceptions. > JavaScript Dart is statically typed. --- Plus....Dart has a first-class mobile story, unlike Rust + Go. --- Hope that helps!
- pjmlp 3y ago
  > Dart has a first-class mobile story, unlike Rust + Go Not really, the Android team doesn't even list it as supported language, a team that belongs to the same employeer. The same team not only lists Rust, it has official documentation on the Android site for OEMs, on how to use Rust.
fngjdflmdflg 3y ago
>Why would I use it over something like Rust, Go, or even JavaScript? Honestly, mainly for flutter. But if you do chose flutter for your project, you will suddenly wish everyone was using dart for everything else instead of Java on android, or c#/Swift on ios ect. if that makes sense. If sound type checking is truly feasible on the web then I'd say dart should be there too. But I can't say if that's really the case. At least ECMA seems to think it isn't, at least for js.
- epcoa 3y ago
  > Java on android You mean Kotlin? Nah. Dart is ok. It doesn't perform as well as those peer languages. It's nice its FFI story is good, but the ecosystem is very weak even compared to Javascript. As for the tooling. It's decent. I wouldn't call it amazing, unless you come from systems that were anemic to begin with, then it seems pretty amazing. As for flutter. I recently installed it again. A test app with a single CupertinoTextField consumes 45% of an Intel core on a linux desktop (Wayland and X11 were similar). Like, goodbye. Maybe if WORA means iOS and Android, fine, I get that is the common use case. But that is wishful thinking to false advertising as far as I care. https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/125388 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/125388 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/101591 https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/101591 (going on 2 years!) I also believe Google will shit can both this and Fuchsia, because Google is CADT baked into its organizational structure.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    > consumes 45% of an Intel core on a linux desktop Like for 1ms? For a second? Eternally?
    - epcoa 3y ago
      Eternally, as long as that text field has focus with the animation of a blinking cursor. I'm not telling my customers to make sure they're not "holding it wrong" by deigning to leave the app in the foreground and killing their battery.
  - 3y ago
david422 3y ago
Basically seamless multiplatform targeting - iOS, macOS, Linux, Windows, Android, web

preommr 3y ago

Please do, because excluding minor exceptions, the more popular of recent programming languages have these as table stakes. Everything (even previously dynamic languages like python) has some form of static typing, options/null-safety, and really good tooling (ts ecosystem is huge, rust compiler has entire articles praising it for making people better programmers). Some languages might be slow to compile but have solutions like HMR for ts and are actively being improved in languages like rust.

balencpp 3y ago
Some form of static typing != proper static typing. The 'static typing' from Python (and other previously dynamic languages) do not come close to Dart's; neither does Typescript's. All forms of null-safety aren't the same. The ergonomics differ. Huge ecosystem != good tooling. But indeed, Rust has good tooling. Doesn't mean you can compare Rust to Dart though. Rust's compile-time is improving, but why are we bringing in future items for comparison?