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This "greedy algorithm" can have worse long-term results. If you want to grow, you need to stick around longer to get enough know-how and develop relations to a

This "greedy algorithm" can have worse long-term results. If you want to grow, you need to stick around longer to get enough know-how and develop relations to actually achieve something big. If you are happy with being Google L5 equivalent permanently then yes it is a good strategy.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
The only thing I want to grow is my brokerage account. ymmv. You can be the best, hardest worker and still get tossed out when layoffs come (as Google has shown recently, among others [1]); you'll get a sad LinkedIn post opportunity tagging a bunch of colleagues about "your incredible journey together in the books" that folks will scroll past and move on to your next role. It is important to cultivate opportunities to have meaningful work, certainly, but freedom is more important (imho) than whatever slides you'll put together to communicate some corporate success story that'll be a line item on your resume/CV as soon as you're out the door competing with hundreds of other folks for a new role (if you don't have a network you keep hot). TLDR Skill and luck are orthogonal. No one is going to look out for you but you. [1] https://layoffs.fyi/ https://layoffs.fyi/ (>20 years in tech, been through both 2000 and 2008 financial events)
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Additional recent citation with regards to skill, talent, and experience meaning little at layoff time: https://web.archive.org/web/20240208182735/https://old.reddit.com/r/JPL/comments/1ale1s3/chaos_at_jpl/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240208182735/https://old.reddi... https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/jpl-workforce-update https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/jpl-workforce-update https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39303463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39303463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39282161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39282161
seadan83 3y ago
My experience has been quite different. At Amazon, after year one, I didn't learn much that was new - just a lot of the same stuff month-over-month. I found the biggest growth was when I switched jobs and learned a new environment, systems, team processes; and that was second to working on open source where I probably learned at about 5x the rate I was compared to professional work. On each job hop, every 2 to 3 years, the pay increase was 30% to 50% each time. I'm now at year 5 in my current job, I've gotten a 10% pay raise just based on the company giving raises, and got a 20% raise in a counter-offer. Thus, job hopping, I learned a lot more & was effectively increasing my pay by 10% every year. Now that I'm at the same place for 5 years, my pay effectively increased by less than 5% per year and that number is dropping (I'm at max salary, no raises are forecasted for me). I think it's largely situational what is better for someone. I've known various "senior" MS or Amzn engineers that had long since been so far removed from coding that they were lousy developers (10 years of the same two years of experience). Thus, I think growth (salary and personal) is largely just what you do with it, IMHO there are likely bigger variables at play compared to job tenure.
- elevatedastalt 3y ago
  I agree that it's definitely nuanced. However, I have also seen many cases of people "failing upwards". They basically do a mediocre job at their current company with middling performance ratings, such that there is no way they would get a promotion (for obv reasons), then jump to another company at L+1, rinse and repeat, until they plateau after 2-3 promotions. It's good for them personally, but terrible for the industry, as these people with actually very mediocre experience and ability are now leads.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
I always get the most growth when I switch companies. Staying at the same place tends to mean I simply continue to see the same problems again and again.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

The only thing I want to grow is my brokerage account. ymmv. You can be the best, hardest worker and still get tossed out when layoffs come (as Google has shown recently, among others [1]); you'll get a sad LinkedIn post opportunity tagging a bunch of colleagues about "your incredible journey together in the books" that folks will scroll past and move on to your next role. It is important to cultivate opportunities to have meaningful work, certainly, but freedom is more important (imho) than whatever slides you'll put together to communicate some corporate success story that'll be a line item on your resume/CV as soon as you're out the door competing with hundreds of other folks for a new role (if you don't have a network you keep hot). TLDR Skill and luck are orthogonal. No one is going to look out for you but you. [1] https://layoffs.fyi/ https://layoffs.fyi/ (>20 years in tech, been through both 2000 and 2008 financial events)

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Additional recent citation with regards to skill, talent, and experience meaning little at layoff time: https://web.archive.org/web/20240208182735/https://old.reddit.com/r/JPL/comments/1ale1s3/chaos_at_jpl/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240208182735/https://old.reddi... https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/jpl-workforce-update https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/jpl-workforce-update https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39303463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39303463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39282161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39282161

seadan83 3y ago

My experience has been quite different. At Amazon, after year one, I didn't learn much that was new - just a lot of the same stuff month-over-month. I found the biggest growth was when I switched jobs and learned a new environment, systems, team processes; and that was second to working on open source where I probably learned at about 5x the rate I was compared to professional work. On each job hop, every 2 to 3 years, the pay increase was 30% to 50% each time. I'm now at year 5 in my current job, I've gotten a 10% pay raise just based on the company giving raises, and got a 20% raise in a counter-offer. Thus, job hopping, I learned a lot more & was effectively increasing my pay by 10% every year. Now that I'm at the same place for 5 years, my pay effectively increased by less than 5% per year and that number is dropping (I'm at max salary, no raises are forecasted for me). I think it's largely situational what is better for someone. I've known various "senior" MS or Amzn engineers that had long since been so far removed from coding that they were lousy developers (10 years of the same two years of experience). Thus, I think growth (salary and personal) is largely just what you do with it, IMHO there are likely bigger variables at play compared to job tenure.

elevatedastalt 3y ago
I agree that it's definitely nuanced. However, I have also seen many cases of people "failing upwards". They basically do a mediocre job at their current company with middling performance ratings, such that there is no way they would get a promotion (for obv reasons), then jump to another company at L+1, rinse and repeat, until they plateau after 2-3 promotions. It's good for them personally, but terrible for the industry, as these people with actually very mediocre experience and ability are now leads.

SkyPuncher 3y ago

I always get the most growth when I switch companies. Staying at the same place tends to mean I simply continue to see the same problems again and again.