4 ms·

> Learning instruments in a guitar-hero way (Piano, guitar, drums) What would VR add here? For guitar-hero style instrument learning, there are already Yousici

> Learning instruments in a guitar-hero way (Piano, guitar, drums) What would VR add here? For guitar-hero style instrument learning, there are already Yousician, Simply Piano / Guitar, Gibson and Fender apps, and quite a few others.

bnolsen 3y ago
rocksmith is the big player here. It's awesome with a big screen TV. VR only gets in the way.
willio58 3y ago
For piano it lines up the keys with the notes on your physical keyboard, so you don't need to look at a separate representation of a keyboard, you can literally see the notes fall onto your piano at the right times. Same thing with the other instruments.
- oriolid 3y ago
  The problem is that once you get past the very initial stage, you want to read ahead of what you play at the moment. At that moment Synthesia-style falling blocks notation becomes difficult to read because the blocks don't have any position reference besides the keys and no time values. Even the scrolling sheet music or tab is distracting compared stationary black and white. With guitar there's the additional problem that you can't see both hands at the same time, and usually you won't be looking at your hands at all. And if you ever want to play without help from the app, you need to learn to find the notes anyway. This is by the way a great explanation of all the attempts to make music easier to read and how they fail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3bUFgEcb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3bUFgEcb4
  - rwalle 3y ago
    exactly. Those who think VR headsets are good music teachers probably have never taken any serious music lessons or master any instruments themselves. If you have just taken one month of lesson and have been practicing daily, these things will start to prevent you from making progress, not help you. (coming from someone who has been taking piano lessons for the past 8 years and have a Quest 3)
crtified 3y ago
> What would VR add here? I'm imagining an AI VR tutor - heck, with some legal deepfake+AI style evolution, perhaps that tutor could actually be a famous player, talking to you. The 3D view gives, well, a 3D view, and all the advantages it entails. For example, when you are with a physical real world teacher, you don't have a fixed view. You can observe from any angle, the teacher can observe and correct micro errors. And the senses of scale and proportion are intact, unlike viewing on a 2D screen of arbitrary size at arbitrary distance. Even the simple POV of VR means that you get to see the techniques in-situ - e.g. seeing the expert's hands on your guitar, and how the technique is supposed to look from POV - rather than the standard teacher-student limitation of e.g. guitar, where the student sits opposite the teacher and sees a reversed image. But to be clear, my vision of how this would be game changing relies upon a level of interplay between hardware and software that is not yet developed. But I expect it will be, in time, because virtualising real world experiences is arguably the core goal of VR, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but nothing in the music tuition world has yet proven superior to having an extremely skilled one-on-one mentor who can personally guide your every step, "in person" - and this is what VR would seek to achieve here.
- rwalle 3y ago
  May I ask if you play any instruments and taken music lessons for a serious amount of time? My guess is not, because to me it is obvious you don't understand how this works and are just imagining things. Speaking as someone who takes private piano lessons and have been practicing daily for the past 8 years: If this were possible, music teachers would have already been replaced to some extent. But that has not happened yet. AI is not new. VR is not that new. Even without this, just talking about non-personalized, non-VR instructions. Have you seen those websites that "teaches" you piano just by connecting your keyboard to a computer and following instructions? Where are they now? It does not work like that. Maybe for an absolute beginner who has trouble finding a key or fret, but as soon as you get a little bit better it won't work. Music learning is an extremely personalized experience. People pay 1-1 private lessons because it needs to be done that way. A teacher, especially a good teacher, can tell you exactly what you did wrong and what you should do to get better at it. Plus different teachers often have different opinions of music -- how a piece of music should be interpreted or played. As you get more advanced, you spend even less time on technique itself. Theoretically you could train an AI tutor that does the same thing. But no, it hasn't happen yet and will not happen. Did I mention hallucination? Do you want a teacher that hallucinates? Plus you need lots of practice -- routines, repetitions, all those scales. AI or VR is just useless. Effective practice strategy is important, but you don't need AI for that.

bnolsen 3y ago

rocksmith is the big player here. It's awesome with a big screen TV. VR only gets in the way.

willio58 3y ago

For piano it lines up the keys with the notes on your physical keyboard, so you don't need to look at a separate representation of a keyboard, you can literally see the notes fall onto your piano at the right times. Same thing with the other instruments.

oriolid 3y ago
The problem is that once you get past the very initial stage, you want to read ahead of what you play at the moment. At that moment Synthesia-style falling blocks notation becomes difficult to read because the blocks don't have any position reference besides the keys and no time values. Even the scrolling sheet music or tab is distracting compared stationary black and white. With guitar there's the additional problem that you can't see both hands at the same time, and usually you won't be looking at your hands at all. And if you ever want to play without help from the app, you need to learn to find the notes anyway. This is by the way a great explanation of all the attempts to make music easier to read and how they fail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3bUFgEcb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3bUFgEcb4
- rwalle 3y ago
  exactly. Those who think VR headsets are good music teachers probably have never taken any serious music lessons or master any instruments themselves. If you have just taken one month of lesson and have been practicing daily, these things will start to prevent you from making progress, not help you. (coming from someone who has been taking piano lessons for the past 8 years and have a Quest 3)

crtified 3y ago

> What would VR add here? I'm imagining an AI VR tutor - heck, with some legal deepfake+AI style evolution, perhaps that tutor could actually be a famous player, talking to you. The 3D view gives, well, a 3D view, and all the advantages it entails. For example, when you are with a physical real world teacher, you don't have a fixed view. You can observe from any angle, the teacher can observe and correct micro errors. And the senses of scale and proportion are intact, unlike viewing on a 2D screen of arbitrary size at arbitrary distance. Even the simple POV of VR means that you get to see the techniques in-situ - e.g. seeing the expert's hands on your guitar, and how the technique is supposed to look from POV - rather than the standard teacher-student limitation of e.g. guitar, where the student sits opposite the teacher and sees a reversed image. But to be clear, my vision of how this would be game changing relies upon a level of interplay between hardware and software that is not yet developed. But I expect it will be, in time, because virtualising real world experiences is arguably the core goal of VR, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but nothing in the music tuition world has yet proven superior to having an extremely skilled one-on-one mentor who can personally guide your every step, "in person" - and this is what VR would seek to achieve here.

rwalle 3y ago
May I ask if you play any instruments and taken music lessons for a serious amount of time? My guess is not, because to me it is obvious you don't understand how this works and are just imagining things. Speaking as someone who takes private piano lessons and have been practicing daily for the past 8 years: If this were possible, music teachers would have already been replaced to some extent. But that has not happened yet. AI is not new. VR is not that new. Even without this, just talking about non-personalized, non-VR instructions. Have you seen those websites that "teaches" you piano just by connecting your keyboard to a computer and following instructions? Where are they now? It does not work like that. Maybe for an absolute beginner who has trouble finding a key or fret, but as soon as you get a little bit better it won't work. Music learning is an extremely personalized experience. People pay 1-1 private lessons because it needs to be done that way. A teacher, especially a good teacher, can tell you exactly what you did wrong and what you should do to get better at it. Plus different teachers often have different opinions of music -- how a piece of music should be interpreted or played. As you get more advanced, you spend even less time on technique itself. Theoretically you could train an AI tutor that does the same thing. But no, it hasn't happen yet and will not happen. Did I mention hallucination? Do you want a teacher that hallucinates? Plus you need lots of practice -- routines, repetitions, all those scales. AI or VR is just useless. Effective practice strategy is important, but you don't need AI for that.