8 ms·

Is it just me or do you folks feel like there would be soon a mass migration of people from Western countries to places like India, South America, Africa etc be

Is it just me or do you folks feel like there would be soon a mass migration of people from Western countries to places like India, South America, Africa etc because of not being able to afford basic things like rent? Not like a nomad but more permanent.

coolbreezetft24 3y ago
I definitely do not feel like this will happen anytime soon at all. Maybe more domestic migration from expensive metros to less expensive areas (already happening somewhat)
- quux 3y ago
  I'm born and raised in NYC and more and more I'm contemplating moving somewhere, anywhere, where I actually get my money's worth on rent, municipal services, quality of life, etc.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    Moving to Florida from NYC was a revelation for me. With more people it manages to properly return services to its citizens despite zero income tax. Think about the state and city tax you pay as a New Yorker and just how miserable of an experience you get in return. NYC is drowning in pension obligations and just plain mismanagement. For nearly two years post-COVID lockdown you still couldn't get any kind of interaction with any city services. The city courts are still backed up for years and years. The city's infrastructure is collapsing, budget cuts are everywhere and every politician in the city is still crawling over each other trying to save their pet pork projects rather than do what matters for most of the people who live there. GET OUT!
    - busterarm 3y ago
      Just want to add that I didn't stay in Florida. Miami is weird. The Carolinas suit me just fine. Most underrated part of the country by far.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I've spent a fair bit of time in North Carolina. Never lived there but every job since grad school has had some connection there. Don't love the summer climate but a fair bit to recommend it (for the South particularly) overall.
      - quux 3y ago
        I lived in South Beach for a year. Definitely a strange place :D
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- ehwhwhwhahhwh 3y ago
  Oh yeah. That can work.
pengaru 3y ago
> Is it just me or do you folks feel like there would be soon a mass migration of people from Western countries to places like India ... India? No, it's just you. The U.S. pop. density is 87/mi^2, India's is 1097/mi^2. (according to wikipedia)
- ehwhwhwhahhwh 3y ago
  Okay. Now do that for Russia. I don't think migration of humans revolves around population density.
  - pengaru 3y ago
    Alaska (666 mi^2) is nowhere near the size of Siberia (5.1M mi^2), EAGAIN. source: wikipedia
    - ehwhwhwhahhwh 3y ago
      I am sorry. I was not aware that USA is now only Alaska and Russia is only Sibera. Should have checked the news.
zamadatix 3y ago
I feel quote strongly not as the ones unable to afford basic things like rent are the least likely group of a society to afford and be allowed to mass migrate to another continent. Especially when there is plenty of empty remote land in the US where you don't need to fly all your stuff, learn a new language and set of laws, or get approval to go.
- elashri 3y ago
  That's interesting idea. But I don't know enough about law but can you just go to some remote area and build a small house there (even very basic strong tent). Would more people do this and they start this small community where they provide some sense of infrastructure? Maybe if you are alone of a few people in the areait would be easier. But in reality I think that it would be hard specially with the harsh weather that climate change is giving us these days that will need some community and some infrastructure to survive.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Yes if you go outside the major population centers there is still affordable housing, land, or rental housing availble. The problem is there aren't a lot of high-paying jobs in those areas, or other ammenities that a lot of people like such as entertainment, gourmet restaurants, nightlife.
  - ElevenLathe 3y ago
    We did this for a long time in the US and called it "homesteading".
    - ghaff 3y ago
      You don't need to homestead. There is relatively inexpensive housing in many areas and even some entertainment and dining options. Heck, I'm within range of going into Boston for an evening/night and I'm pretty sure where I live is much cheaper than in the city or immediately outside. (And when I moved here, there wasn't even much tech in the city proper.)
deleted 3y ago
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jdminhbg 3y ago
Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded?
tail_exchange 3y ago
Not impossible, but even ignoring the difficulty of getting a visa and learning a new culture in order to live there, what guarantees do you have that you'd be able to get a job that pays you enough to live there comfortably? It's true that your rent will be cheaper, but your salary will likely be way lower too, and so will be the quality of public services.
robotnikman 3y ago
Not India, but I've heard of people moving to Portugal because its cheaper.
busterarm 3y ago
This is already popular among the pensioner/retiree crowd.
- wnc3141 3y ago
  My folks keep talking about Costa Rica (as many retirees may have), but never committed.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Moving countries may be desirable but it comes with its own set of issues--that may become bigger as you get older. There are plenty of less expensive areas in the states although they may not have the climate and other features you prefer.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      Rent tends to be pretty unreasonable across most of the US these days as far as I've seen. And most places have next to no tenants' rights. I have a friend who left NYC for an apartment in Sioux Falls, SD and his landlord changed his lease terms and payment structure multiple times mid-lease, doesn't have individual utility metering and just bills everyone in the building what they want and even bills him for utilities that they don't provide. Everyone in the building who challenged it was evicted on three days notice.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I wouldn't count on international landlords being appreciably better on average and now you're in a foreign country. Sure, there are asshole landlords and renting always comes with its own tradeoffs. But there are a lot of places you can rent for much less than NYC if you don't need a local job.
wnc3141 3y ago
Although paychecks seem to go less far today, America currently the strongest economy globally, with somewhat affordable housing compared to much of the developed world (although some have us beat). Also its easy to forget the pathway in life afforded by living in a highly developed nation. Access to capital (mortgages etc)., preferred trading status (for example import goods are much more expensive in Brazil - accounting for foreign exchange), robust job market with competitive wages, strong regulatory environment (low corruption, enforced business/ financial laws) allowing business transactions to be fairly dependable, competitive offers for cell coverage and airlines and other infrastructure, (relative) certainty of safety, and access to a shared culture (for those from western countries). Of course there are many low cost of living expats who remain attached to American institutions (such as banking), but en masse out migration to low cost of living nations? I think unlikely.
smallstepforman 3y ago
Eastern Europe has 1st world infrastructure and excellent health care for at 50% cost of living. I moved my family 3 years ago after the C19 tyrany.
drpgq 3y ago
Well there's digital nomads going to places like Mexico City nowadays.
FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
We've already seen -- 1. Significant migration from CA and NY to TX, TN, FL, etc. People make this about D/R politics, but it's really more about housing. The Rent is Too Damn High. 2. Net migration between the US and Mexico has been in the direction of Mexico for a few years now. Probably Trumpist xenophobia played a role, but I suspect that mostly It's the Economy Stupid -- partly that costs in the US are high, and maybe also partly that opportunities in Mexico have improved.
foogazi 3y ago
There’s plenty of cheap places in the US Why would you leave the country ? Scranton, PA: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/933-Monroe-Ave-Scranton-PA-18510/2055280860_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/933-Monroe-Ave-Scranton-P... Lansing, MI: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1507-W-Michigan-Ave-Lansing-MI-48915/74005596_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1507-W-Michigan-Ave-Lansi... Oklahoma City: OK: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6900-Elk-Canyon-Rd-Oklahoma-City-OK-73162/22012689_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6900-Elk-Canyon-Rd-Oklaho...

coolbreezetft24 3y ago

I definitely do not feel like this will happen anytime soon at all. Maybe more domestic migration from expensive metros to less expensive areas (already happening somewhat)

quux 3y ago
I'm born and raised in NYC and more and more I'm contemplating moving somewhere, anywhere, where I actually get my money's worth on rent, municipal services, quality of life, etc.
- busterarm 3y ago
  Moving to Florida from NYC was a revelation for me. With more people it manages to properly return services to its citizens despite zero income tax. Think about the state and city tax you pay as a New Yorker and just how miserable of an experience you get in return. NYC is drowning in pension obligations and just plain mismanagement. For nearly two years post-COVID lockdown you still couldn't get any kind of interaction with any city services. The city courts are still backed up for years and years. The city's infrastructure is collapsing, budget cuts are everywhere and every politician in the city is still crawling over each other trying to save their pet pork projects rather than do what matters for most of the people who live there. GET OUT!
  - busterarm 3y ago
    Just want to add that I didn't stay in Florida. Miami is weird. The Carolinas suit me just fine. Most underrated part of the country by far.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I've spent a fair bit of time in North Carolina. Never lived there but every job since grad school has had some connection there. Don't love the summer climate but a fair bit to recommend it (for the South particularly) overall.
    - quux 3y ago
      I lived in South Beach for a year. Definitely a strange place :D
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
ehwhwhwhahhwh 3y ago
Oh yeah. That can work.

pengaru 3y ago

> Is it just me or do you folks feel like there would be soon a mass migration of people from Western countries to places like India ... India? No, it's just you. The U.S. pop. density is 87/mi^2, India's is 1097/mi^2. (according to wikipedia)

ehwhwhwhahhwh 3y ago
Okay. Now do that for Russia. I don't think migration of humans revolves around population density.
- pengaru 3y ago
  Alaska (666 mi^2) is nowhere near the size of Siberia (5.1M mi^2), EAGAIN. source: wikipedia
  - ehwhwhwhahhwh 3y ago
    I am sorry. I was not aware that USA is now only Alaska and Russia is only Sibera. Should have checked the news.

zamadatix 3y ago

I feel quote strongly not as the ones unable to afford basic things like rent are the least likely group of a society to afford and be allowed to mass migrate to another continent. Especially when there is plenty of empty remote land in the US where you don't need to fly all your stuff, learn a new language and set of laws, or get approval to go.

elashri 3y ago
That's interesting idea. But I don't know enough about law but can you just go to some remote area and build a small house there (even very basic strong tent). Would more people do this and they start this small community where they provide some sense of infrastructure? Maybe if you are alone of a few people in the areait would be easier. But in reality I think that it would be hard specially with the harsh weather that climate change is giving us these days that will need some community and some infrastructure to survive.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Yes if you go outside the major population centers there is still affordable housing, land, or rental housing availble. The problem is there aren't a lot of high-paying jobs in those areas, or other ammenities that a lot of people like such as entertainment, gourmet restaurants, nightlife.
- ElevenLathe 3y ago
  We did this for a long time in the US and called it "homesteading".
  - ghaff 3y ago
    You don't need to homestead. There is relatively inexpensive housing in many areas and even some entertainment and dining options. Heck, I'm within range of going into Boston for an evening/night and I'm pretty sure where I live is much cheaper than in the city or immediately outside. (And when I moved here, there wasn't even much tech in the city proper.)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jdminhbg 3y ago

Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded?

tail_exchange 3y ago

Not impossible, but even ignoring the difficulty of getting a visa and learning a new culture in order to live there, what guarantees do you have that you'd be able to get a job that pays you enough to live there comfortably? It's true that your rent will be cheaper, but your salary will likely be way lower too, and so will be the quality of public services.

robotnikman 3y ago

Not India, but I've heard of people moving to Portugal because its cheaper.

busterarm 3y ago

This is already popular among the pensioner/retiree crowd.

wnc3141 3y ago
My folks keep talking about Costa Rica (as many retirees may have), but never committed.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Moving countries may be desirable but it comes with its own set of issues--that may become bigger as you get older. There are plenty of less expensive areas in the states although they may not have the climate and other features you prefer.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    Rent tends to be pretty unreasonable across most of the US these days as far as I've seen. And most places have next to no tenants' rights. I have a friend who left NYC for an apartment in Sioux Falls, SD and his landlord changed his lease terms and payment structure multiple times mid-lease, doesn't have individual utility metering and just bills everyone in the building what they want and even bills him for utilities that they don't provide. Everyone in the building who challenged it was evicted on three days notice.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I wouldn't count on international landlords being appreciably better on average and now you're in a foreign country. Sure, there are asshole landlords and renting always comes with its own tradeoffs. But there are a lot of places you can rent for much less than NYC if you don't need a local job.

wnc3141 3y ago

Although paychecks seem to go less far today, America currently the strongest economy globally, with somewhat affordable housing compared to much of the developed world (although some have us beat). Also its easy to forget the pathway in life afforded by living in a highly developed nation. Access to capital (mortgages etc)., preferred trading status (for example import goods are much more expensive in Brazil - accounting for foreign exchange), robust job market with competitive wages, strong regulatory environment (low corruption, enforced business/ financial laws) allowing business transactions to be fairly dependable, competitive offers for cell coverage and airlines and other infrastructure, (relative) certainty of safety, and access to a shared culture (for those from western countries). Of course there are many low cost of living expats who remain attached to American institutions (such as banking), but en masse out migration to low cost of living nations? I think unlikely.

smallstepforman 3y ago

Eastern Europe has 1st world infrastructure and excellent health care for at 50% cost of living. I moved my family 3 years ago after the C19 tyrany.

drpgq 3y ago

Well there's digital nomads going to places like Mexico City nowadays.

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago

We've already seen -- 1. Significant migration from CA and NY to TX, TN, FL, etc. People make this about D/R politics, but it's really more about housing. The Rent is Too Damn High. 2. Net migration between the US and Mexico has been in the direction of Mexico for a few years now. Probably Trumpist xenophobia played a role, but I suspect that mostly It's the Economy Stupid -- partly that costs in the US are high, and maybe also partly that opportunities in Mexico have improved.

foogazi 3y ago

There’s plenty of cheap places in the US Why would you leave the country ? Scranton, PA: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/933-Monroe-Ave-Scranton-PA-18510/2055280860_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/933-Monroe-Ave-Scranton-P... Lansing, MI: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1507-W-Michigan-Ave-Lansing-MI-48915/74005596_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1507-W-Michigan-Ave-Lansi... Oklahoma City: OK: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6900-Elk-Canyon-Rd-Oklahoma-City-OK-73162/22012689_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6900-Elk-Canyon-Rd-Oklaho...