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Another article attacking crypto, lumping it together with AI and Internet crime. The digital age has transformed the financial landscape, making transactions

Another article attacking crypto, lumping it together with AI and Internet crime. The digital age has transformed the financial landscape, making transactions faster, easier, and more global. Of course this is going to come with a corresponding increase in crime. I think the focus on these large financial crimes sweeps the massive increase in small scams and littler financial crimes which in aggregate seem to be much larger. Our phones are blowing up with scam after scam, but the focus of regulators seems to be generally on systemic risk. However, a loss of faith in the system due to constant bombardment of scams could be considered a systemic risk. We need to focus a lot more resources on reducing these small crime networks and perhaps a little less on the larger sized but much smaller percentage of overall crime that is large scale fraud.

PaulHoule 3y ago
I think it's true about a lot of crap that gets advertised. Those "intermittent fasting based on your age" ads are one of many things that make you think it is all crap on the internet and that's just one example. I've thought that scam television ads contribute to a perception of institutional illegitimacy and drove people to vote Republican. If you watched an hour of TV during the day you might see almost no ads for anything you spend your money on but lots of ambulance chasing lawyers, ads for things you can spend health insurance benefits on, ads for things you can spend other government benefits on, etc. (Gotta have ads for car dealers though because without them you'd never get hit by a car and have to call William Mattar) There were a series of scam ads for medical devices that made me think "thats a scam!" that ran for a decade before it turned out they really were a scam. What message do people get when the TV network and regulators and everyone in authority let a blatant scam go on in plain site?
mminer237 3y ago
It's not about the speed, ease, or locale. There are definitely faster and easier ways to send money than Bitcoin. It's because of the irreversibility and anonymity it affords. Crypto's primary advantage over other payment methods is preventing law enforcement. I don't know what a government can really even do about small-scale scams other than require more ID verification for calls/texts/crypto/Internet.
- happytiger 3y ago
  I was defending crypto. I’m an avid supporter of financial systems outside of government control, and believe we need to implement inclusive financial systems instead of exclusionary (read: kyc) systems. Unfortunately bitcoin isn’t very anonymous, but other cryptos are. There are oceans of things they can do about scams and crime. Simple things. Let me offer a few simple examples. Ex. Using a real time black hole list to kill spam and scam call centers. This is old technology that works and could be easily integrated into existing networks. Ex 2. Requiring anyone purchasing over a certain dollar amount of gift card to specify the recipient at the point of sale and apply example 1. This would eliminate most gift card scams. We are very much more capable than people realize of common sense solutions that move the needle and are cheap to implement. However regulators are focused on only large, but much more rare, financial crimes.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    What I'm going to argue is that the prevalence of scams is a threat to the perceived legitimacy of the government, media and other institutions and has a terrible cost which is a lot more than people think. (e.g. how can you trust The New York Times when it has obvious scam ads? Doesn't continuous exposure to scam ads make Donald Trump's lies seem a little more "normal"?) By that measure it might be worth spending $1.50 to prevent $1 of scam. Gift cards should just be eliminated. I mean, my sister-in-law bought my son a gift card for Burger King but we don't have a Burger King in town. Why not save people the embarrassment?
  - mminer237 3y ago
    We do have blacklists integrated already, but it's hard to get accurate reports and it's still just playing whack-a-mole. Without KYC coupled with it, the cost of getting a new phone number and picking up where you left off is almost nothing. Requiring more KYC for gift cards would help in theory, but I don't know how you would implement that in practice. I don't know that I've ever had a worker check my ID to pick something up when they're supposed to, and you would have to implement a whole government ID verification system just to use a gift card online? Then it also adds a whole 'nother issue trying to legally resell gift cards. Neither of those seems easy nor a solution.
scrubs 3y ago
If you're in crypto and on the up and up why take umbrage? This article isn't about you. If you're in crypto and you're screwing around, then you know there are logical, legal, and financial consequences to being an asshole. So again why take umbrage. Those are all the cases an no case admits whining or feeling sorry for something based on imaginary, manufactured outrage. Deal with it
- happytiger 3y ago
  Ok… not quit the friendly conversation I’m used to on HN. I certainly understand your point I guess, but it’s harsh and unkindly written. Hope you’re doing ok. I and many others are always here if you’re not.
  - scrubs 3y ago
    Laboring under the insane delusion that one works from a position conferring distinction --- a certain mysterious calmness and suaveness --- is most definitely what insured a lot of the assholes self destructed and went to jail. I'm not mom or dad, happytiger; get it or don't. The upsides and downsides are your's alone to bear.

PaulHoule 3y ago

I think it's true about a lot of crap that gets advertised. Those "intermittent fasting based on your age" ads are one of many things that make you think it is all crap on the internet and that's just one example. I've thought that scam television ads contribute to a perception of institutional illegitimacy and drove people to vote Republican. If you watched an hour of TV during the day you might see almost no ads for anything you spend your money on but lots of ambulance chasing lawyers, ads for things you can spend health insurance benefits on, ads for things you can spend other government benefits on, etc. (Gotta have ads for car dealers though because without them you'd never get hit by a car and have to call William Mattar) There were a series of scam ads for medical devices that made me think "thats a scam!" that ran for a decade before it turned out they really were a scam. What message do people get when the TV network and regulators and everyone in authority let a blatant scam go on in plain site?

mminer237 3y ago

It's not about the speed, ease, or locale. There are definitely faster and easier ways to send money than Bitcoin. It's because of the irreversibility and anonymity it affords. Crypto's primary advantage over other payment methods is preventing law enforcement. I don't know what a government can really even do about small-scale scams other than require more ID verification for calls/texts/crypto/Internet.

happytiger 3y ago
I was defending crypto. I’m an avid supporter of financial systems outside of government control, and believe we need to implement inclusive financial systems instead of exclusionary (read: kyc) systems. Unfortunately bitcoin isn’t very anonymous, but other cryptos are. There are oceans of things they can do about scams and crime. Simple things. Let me offer a few simple examples. Ex. Using a real time black hole list to kill spam and scam call centers. This is old technology that works and could be easily integrated into existing networks. Ex 2. Requiring anyone purchasing over a certain dollar amount of gift card to specify the recipient at the point of sale and apply example 1. This would eliminate most gift card scams. We are very much more capable than people realize of common sense solutions that move the needle and are cheap to implement. However regulators are focused on only large, but much more rare, financial crimes.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  What I'm going to argue is that the prevalence of scams is a threat to the perceived legitimacy of the government, media and other institutions and has a terrible cost which is a lot more than people think. (e.g. how can you trust The New York Times when it has obvious scam ads? Doesn't continuous exposure to scam ads make Donald Trump's lies seem a little more "normal"?) By that measure it might be worth spending $1.50 to prevent $1 of scam. Gift cards should just be eliminated. I mean, my sister-in-law bought my son a gift card for Burger King but we don't have a Burger King in town. Why not save people the embarrassment?
- mminer237 3y ago
  We do have blacklists integrated already, but it's hard to get accurate reports and it's still just playing whack-a-mole. Without KYC coupled with it, the cost of getting a new phone number and picking up where you left off is almost nothing. Requiring more KYC for gift cards would help in theory, but I don't know how you would implement that in practice. I don't know that I've ever had a worker check my ID to pick something up when they're supposed to, and you would have to implement a whole government ID verification system just to use a gift card online? Then it also adds a whole 'nother issue trying to legally resell gift cards. Neither of those seems easy nor a solution.

scrubs 3y ago

If you're in crypto and on the up and up why take umbrage? This article isn't about you. If you're in crypto and you're screwing around, then you know there are logical, legal, and financial consequences to being an asshole. So again why take umbrage. Those are all the cases an no case admits whining or feeling sorry for something based on imaginary, manufactured outrage. Deal with it

happytiger 3y ago
Ok… not quit the friendly conversation I’m used to on HN. I certainly understand your point I guess, but it’s harsh and unkindly written. Hope you’re doing ok. I and many others are always here if you’re not.
- scrubs 3y ago
  Laboring under the insane delusion that one works from a position conferring distinction --- a certain mysterious calmness and suaveness --- is most definitely what insured a lot of the assholes self destructed and went to jail. I'm not mom or dad, happytiger; get it or don't. The upsides and downsides are your's alone to bear.