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As long as it's still gimped by not having a true productive OS like macOS, ie making everything go through the app store so as to not cannibalize Mac sales, it

As long as it's still gimped by not having a true productive OS like macOS, ie making everything go through the app store so as to not cannibalize Mac sales, it will be relegated as simply another form factor for the iPad. The iPad could've been a true Surface competitor, where I could run VSCode on it and compile applications natively, but instead it's just become a media consumption device for most people.

NoPedantsThanks 3y ago
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Eisenstein 3y ago
> but instead it's just become a media consumption device for most people. I don't think that is true. I think 'most people' don't need a computer for more than what an iPad can do, and that your use case is more exceptional than common. Computers as we think of them, with a somewhat permissive operating system that let's you execute whatever you want are probably going to decrease in relevance to somewhere akin to how they were in the 90s -- incredibly powerful devices useful to some people who need them for particular reasons or just like using them. Everyone else will be fine with whatever the equivalent of the smartphone/tablet OS is.
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  Sure, but I still see most people using iPads for media while having a MacBook for "real work," which is exactly what Apple wants, to not cannibalize their own products.
  - urda 3y ago
    I'm actually not seeing that and the market numbers don't agree with ya on that. Many less "pro" consumers (not coders or the heavy engineering skew you find here on HN) in my circles have moved away from their traditional Macs as their iPads coupled with their keyboard case of choice or apple pencil (or both) do a lot of their on-the-go.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      In my circles of even non-tech people, everyone has a new Apple Silicon MacBook now, I rarely see people using their iPad for work.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I've had people at work tell me their kid doesn't want a MacBook because their phone works fine for writing papers. My brain still can't process. I've never made my iPad work for me on a business trip except for something very short where I won't really be writing. I also don't draw and, while I could probably do photo editing on it well enough, I wait until I get home and use old-school Lightroom.
      - poulsbohemian 3y ago
        I'd agree with this, with one little carve out... when I was traveling internationally, it was super helpful to have an iPad and be able to slip in a sim card for a local carrier. That plus slightly smaller size made the iPad a better option than carrying my laptop in those specific circumstances.
        ghaff 3y ago
        Fair point. I don't have an iPad with cellular. Honestly not sure when/if I'll get a new iPad--it's about 6 years old--and I have a long recreational international trip coming up; haven't decided if I'll bring a laptop or not.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    Apps like Procreate have sold a lot of iPads to artists who use them for “real work”, as has the Sidecar capability which lets an iPad and Apple Pencil act like a Cintiq with a better screen that’s not desk-bound. It’s true that they’re limited but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t work that’s well-suited for them.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Or, the computer manufacturers will try their best to stuff the Permissiveness Genie back into the bottle. It seems with every macOS release, Apple is determined to make more things previous Macs could do either impossible, hidden behind permissions or hidden behind default-off settings.
wombat-man 3y ago
Well, you can use your mac's screen inside the vision pro, but I've read the resolution for that is weirdly low, QHD. Meta isn't really opening up their headset, since the whole point of that adventure for them was to have their 'iphone' type kingdom. Our best bet might just be Microsoft but they gave up on mixed reality windows, and Idk if they're really gearing up to jump into this product space. I'm fascinated in the idea of Vision pro, not sure I'm ready to shell out for what is basically just a really great movie watching experience. I can see the movie pretty well on my 4k tv, and I'm not sure the improvement is worth the cash.
- ipsum2 3y ago
  Side loading apps on the quest is pretty simple using the aptly named SideQuest, it only requires a one time 15 minute set up. Definitely a lot easier than trying to do this on an iPhone/iPad/iQuest.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    Meta Quest also has full support for WebXR which lets you bypass all the app store BS. You can use this framework to make worlds visible on most XR headsets as well as desktop and mobile https://aframe.io/ https://aframe.io/ My understanding is that Apple is making excuses about being slow to support WebXR. As much as the media has benn fixated about the failed Horizon Worlds (which is a very interesting story that I've never seen elaborated from a software dev's perspective) you might not know that the successful model for Quest is the same as publishing on other game consoles. The market for single-player games for MQ is really healthy but multiplayer games are really thin on the ground which makes the "metaverse" idea look pretty dodgy. I mean, there is the multiplayer VRChat but you're going to have to rub shoulders with weaboos and furries which keeps other obnoxious people away.
    - Jcowell 3y ago
      The VisionPro supports WebXR is safari https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-pro-webxr-support-safari-model/amp/ https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-pro-webxr-support-safa...
whafro 3y ago
But you can see your Mac (running macOS) on it. In that sense, it’s “just” a monitor, but far from Apple’s most expensive monitor. Another comment mentions that you’re confined to the host computer’s “screen” and can’t break applications away from that rectangle. But you could imagine that being a possibility in the not-too-distant future.
gpm 3y ago
I don't think it's worried about cannibalizing mac sales. If it does that it just means Apple gets to sell computers at a substantial premium with a moat against other manufacturers. I think it's worried about not being able to apply a 30% tax on third party software.
kristiandupont 3y ago
It will have a browser. You can do pretty much anything in a browser.
- pquki4 3y ago
  Compile code and run code that has access to local file system and run native command?
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> it's just become a media consumption device That's exactly what corporations like Apple want their devices to be.
losvedir 3y ago
I feel like this is a gut-level response based on history with the iPad, but doesn't translate to the Vision Pro. I think it's meant to be used with a Mac for most productivity use cases. That's how I intend to use mine: VSCode, terminals, compiling all happening on my nearby laptop with the Vision Pro as "just" a 4K monitor, and then extra apps like Slack, Zoom, Safari, Mail, music, etc, floating around as native visionOS windows. In addition, it can be used as an iPad-like media consumption device, e.g., on an airplane, but I see that as an additional (and for me only supplementary) use case.
deleted 3y ago
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NoPedantsThanks 3y ago

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Eisenstein 3y ago

> but instead it's just become a media consumption device for most people. I don't think that is true. I think 'most people' don't need a computer for more than what an iPad can do, and that your use case is more exceptional than common. Computers as we think of them, with a somewhat permissive operating system that let's you execute whatever you want are probably going to decrease in relevance to somewhere akin to how they were in the 90s -- incredibly powerful devices useful to some people who need them for particular reasons or just like using them. Everyone else will be fine with whatever the equivalent of the smartphone/tablet OS is.

satvikpendem 3y ago
Sure, but I still see most people using iPads for media while having a MacBook for "real work," which is exactly what Apple wants, to not cannibalize their own products.
- urda 3y ago
  I'm actually not seeing that and the market numbers don't agree with ya on that. Many less "pro" consumers (not coders or the heavy engineering skew you find here on HN) in my circles have moved away from their traditional Macs as their iPads coupled with their keyboard case of choice or apple pencil (or both) do a lot of their on-the-go.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    In my circles of even non-tech people, everyone has a new Apple Silicon MacBook now, I rarely see people using their iPad for work.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I've had people at work tell me their kid doesn't want a MacBook because their phone works fine for writing papers. My brain still can't process. I've never made my iPad work for me on a business trip except for something very short where I won't really be writing. I also don't draw and, while I could probably do photo editing on it well enough, I wait until I get home and use old-school Lightroom.
    - poulsbohemian 3y ago
      I'd agree with this, with one little carve out... when I was traveling internationally, it was super helpful to have an iPad and be able to slip in a sim card for a local carrier. That plus slightly smaller size made the iPad a better option than carrying my laptop in those specific circumstances.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Fair point. I don't have an iPad with cellular. Honestly not sure when/if I'll get a new iPad--it's about 6 years old--and I have a long recreational international trip coming up; haven't decided if I'll bring a laptop or not.
- jwells89 3y ago
  Apps like Procreate have sold a lot of iPads to artists who use them for “real work”, as has the Sidecar capability which lets an iPad and Apple Pencil act like a Cintiq with a better screen that’s not desk-bound. It’s true that they’re limited but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t work that’s well-suited for them.
ryandrake 3y ago
Or, the computer manufacturers will try their best to stuff the Permissiveness Genie back into the bottle. It seems with every macOS release, Apple is determined to make more things previous Macs could do either impossible, hidden behind permissions or hidden behind default-off settings.

wombat-man 3y ago

Well, you can use your mac's screen inside the vision pro, but I've read the resolution for that is weirdly low, QHD. Meta isn't really opening up their headset, since the whole point of that adventure for them was to have their 'iphone' type kingdom. Our best bet might just be Microsoft but they gave up on mixed reality windows, and Idk if they're really gearing up to jump into this product space. I'm fascinated in the idea of Vision pro, not sure I'm ready to shell out for what is basically just a really great movie watching experience. I can see the movie pretty well on my 4k tv, and I'm not sure the improvement is worth the cash.

ipsum2 3y ago
Side loading apps on the quest is pretty simple using the aptly named SideQuest, it only requires a one time 15 minute set up. Definitely a lot easier than trying to do this on an iPhone/iPad/iQuest.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  Meta Quest also has full support for WebXR which lets you bypass all the app store BS. You can use this framework to make worlds visible on most XR headsets as well as desktop and mobile https://aframe.io/ https://aframe.io/ My understanding is that Apple is making excuses about being slow to support WebXR. As much as the media has benn fixated about the failed Horizon Worlds (which is a very interesting story that I've never seen elaborated from a software dev's perspective) you might not know that the successful model for Quest is the same as publishing on other game consoles. The market for single-player games for MQ is really healthy but multiplayer games are really thin on the ground which makes the "metaverse" idea look pretty dodgy. I mean, there is the multiplayer VRChat but you're going to have to rub shoulders with weaboos and furries which keeps other obnoxious people away.
  - Jcowell 3y ago
    The VisionPro supports WebXR is safari https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-pro-webxr-support-safari-model/amp/ https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-pro-webxr-support-safa...

whafro 3y ago

But you can see your Mac (running macOS) on it. In that sense, it’s “just” a monitor, but far from Apple’s most expensive monitor. Another comment mentions that you’re confined to the host computer’s “screen” and can’t break applications away from that rectangle. But you could imagine that being a possibility in the not-too-distant future.

gpm 3y ago

I don't think it's worried about cannibalizing mac sales. If it does that it just means Apple gets to sell computers at a substantial premium with a moat against other manufacturers. I think it's worried about not being able to apply a 30% tax on third party software.

kristiandupont 3y ago

It will have a browser. You can do pretty much anything in a browser.

pquki4 3y ago
Compile code and run code that has access to local file system and run native command?

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> it's just become a media consumption device That's exactly what corporations like Apple want their devices to be.

losvedir 3y ago

I feel like this is a gut-level response based on history with the iPad, but doesn't translate to the Vision Pro. I think it's meant to be used with a Mac for most productivity use cases. That's how I intend to use mine: VSCode, terminals, compiling all happening on my nearby laptop with the Vision Pro as "just" a 4K monitor, and then extra apps like Slack, Zoom, Safari, Mail, music, etc, floating around as native visionOS windows. In addition, it can be used as an iPad-like media consumption device, e.g., on an airplane, but I see that as an additional (and for me only supplementary) use case.

deleted 3y ago

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