4 ms·

I always feel like there's a whole rule-book of "how to Do Life" that I didn't get, for this easing-into-the-upper-middle-class and/or doing-serious-business-st

I always feel like there's a whole rule-book of "how to Do Life" that I didn't get, for this easing-into-the-upper-middle-class and/or doing-serious-business-stuff shit, that other people just know, because of who their families are and who they grew up hanging out with. I gather the version of that I did get was the middle-class version—which some others didn't get and have a similar "wait, that's just normal?" reaction as I do to the upper-middle stuff. Like 90% of that's basically credit-related—how credit cards work and how to use them, how to build credit, how to buy a house (generally with a mortgage, so, still basically a credit-related thing), that kind of stuff. I've noticed similar things when it comes to paying others to do stuff for me. Having a house cleaner come in for the first time was fucking weird. Still is, really. I can't relax, feel like I ought to be helping. Or paying someone to do work on my house that I could do—tiling, drywalling, some light electrical, plumbing, most general home-improvement stuff. It feels gross—I don't think it does for those who grew up with that stuff being normal. I suspect it's a barrier to advancing in business, because those attitudes carry over. Delegation is weird to me. Being someone's boss is horribly uncomfortable. The notion of starting a business and hiring employees to take over stuff I've been doing feels icky and wrong, and no amount of one part of my brain telling another part to knock it off makes that go away.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Yep I'm with you, I am absolutely loathe to hire anyone to do something I could do myself. I've done major home repairs, painting, flooring, kitchen and bath remodels, I do almost all my own auto repairs and maintenance, I do my own laundry, I clean my own house, I cut my own grass. I have neighbors who just pay for someone to do all that without a second thought.
- KieranMac 3y ago
  There are certain tasks that you would never do yourself, such as surgery. And there are certain tasks like changing your oil where anyone with patience and diligence can do it themselves. It's just a question of whether you want to spend the time to learn it and do it. Responding to a C&D letter from a Fortune 50 company, I would posit, is more like performing surgery than changing your oil. The cost of being wrong is rather high.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Right, that's the "I could do myself" part. Though I've generally been disappointed with the legal services I've hired. Law and medicine seems like most professions, there are some really good practitioners and a lot who are mediocre but have passed the minimum required qualifications, and it's hard for an outsider to immediately spot the difference.
    - KieranMac 3y ago
      Speaking of surgery, here's an analogy that might be helpful. Five years ago I had a catastrophic ankle injury I suffered while running in Moab. Two broken bones, lots of torn ligaments, and otherwise irreparable damage without serious surgery. I interviewed a whole bunch of surgeons before I decided where to go under the knife. And I don't remember where I got the advice, but someone told me the most important question to ask is: "How many times have you performed this specific surgery (a Maisonneuve fracture repair)?" I eventually found the Steadman clinic and a doctor who had already performed the exact surgery I needed nearly 100 times. Everyone else's answer was less than 5. Some even answered 0. The surgical clinic I used had signed pictures of professional athletes all over the wall. I found the true specialist, and I'm very thankful that I did. Even bad lawyers and surgeons are expensive. When you have a bet-the-business legal issue, do plenty of advanced interviewing to make sure that the one you hire has plenty of experience with the exact issue you need help with. If it's not obvious that you've found the right person, keep looking.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > Law and medicine seems like most professions, there are some really good practitioners and a lot who are mediocre This is accurate, in my experience. It's what makes initially finding a lawyer (or doctor, or therapist, or auto mechanic, or etc.) a painful experience. You have to expect to go through a few before you find one that works for you. Then, when you find one, treasure them for the pearls that they are.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    The weird bit is when doing it yourself turns out to be more of a hassle and more expensive than paying someone else to do it. Around 15 years ago I decided to learn how to change my own oil. Even after excluding the fixed costs (I bought little ramp things to drive the front of the car up on while I worked underneath, and a container to drain the old oil into), I was surprised at the per-change costs: the cost of the oil itself (and the new filter), as well as the cost to properly dispose of the old oil. Ended up being more expensive than just taking the car to Jiffy Lube and leaving it with them for an hour or so. That was the first and last time I ever changed my own oil.
JohnFen 3y ago
> Having a house cleaner come in for the first time was fucking weird. Still is, really. I can't relax, feel like I ought to be helping. A long time ago, I had a house cleaner come in once per week to do deep cleaning stuff. It was quite a luxury! However, I always spent a couple of hours cleaning the house in preparation for their arrival. What I've noticed is a shift with age and wealth. When I was young and poor, I had time and energy in abundance and never hired people to do anything for me (excepting for specialized things like medical care). Now that I'm old and more comfortable, I don't have any issue hiring people to do things I can technically do myself. I look at it this way: whether you hire someone or DIY it, you're paying something to get it done. If not money, then time and effort. I just pay in the manner that, big picture, costs me the least. When young and poor, my time and effort was worth less than actual money. Now, money is often worth less than my time and effort. Is it worth paying $50 to have the neighborhood kid mow my lawn for me? Younger me would say absolutely not. Current me says absolutely.

SoftTalker 3y ago

Yep I'm with you, I am absolutely loathe to hire anyone to do something I could do myself. I've done major home repairs, painting, flooring, kitchen and bath remodels, I do almost all my own auto repairs and maintenance, I do my own laundry, I clean my own house, I cut my own grass. I have neighbors who just pay for someone to do all that without a second thought.

KieranMac 3y ago
There are certain tasks that you would never do yourself, such as surgery. And there are certain tasks like changing your oil where anyone with patience and diligence can do it themselves. It's just a question of whether you want to spend the time to learn it and do it. Responding to a C&D letter from a Fortune 50 company, I would posit, is more like performing surgery than changing your oil. The cost of being wrong is rather high.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Right, that's the "I could do myself" part. Though I've generally been disappointed with the legal services I've hired. Law and medicine seems like most professions, there are some really good practitioners and a lot who are mediocre but have passed the minimum required qualifications, and it's hard for an outsider to immediately spot the difference.
  - KieranMac 3y ago
    Speaking of surgery, here's an analogy that might be helpful. Five years ago I had a catastrophic ankle injury I suffered while running in Moab. Two broken bones, lots of torn ligaments, and otherwise irreparable damage without serious surgery. I interviewed a whole bunch of surgeons before I decided where to go under the knife. And I don't remember where I got the advice, but someone told me the most important question to ask is: "How many times have you performed this specific surgery (a Maisonneuve fracture repair)?" I eventually found the Steadman clinic and a doctor who had already performed the exact surgery I needed nearly 100 times. Everyone else's answer was less than 5. Some even answered 0. The surgical clinic I used had signed pictures of professional athletes all over the wall. I found the true specialist, and I'm very thankful that I did. Even bad lawyers and surgeons are expensive. When you have a bet-the-business legal issue, do plenty of advanced interviewing to make sure that the one you hire has plenty of experience with the exact issue you need help with. If it's not obvious that you've found the right person, keep looking.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > Law and medicine seems like most professions, there are some really good practitioners and a lot who are mediocre This is accurate, in my experience. It's what makes initially finding a lawyer (or doctor, or therapist, or auto mechanic, or etc.) a painful experience. You have to expect to go through a few before you find one that works for you. Then, when you find one, treasure them for the pearls that they are.
- kelnos 3y ago
  The weird bit is when doing it yourself turns out to be more of a hassle and more expensive than paying someone else to do it. Around 15 years ago I decided to learn how to change my own oil. Even after excluding the fixed costs (I bought little ramp things to drive the front of the car up on while I worked underneath, and a container to drain the old oil into), I was surprised at the per-change costs: the cost of the oil itself (and the new filter), as well as the cost to properly dispose of the old oil. Ended up being more expensive than just taking the car to Jiffy Lube and leaving it with them for an hour or so. That was the first and last time I ever changed my own oil.

JohnFen 3y ago

> Having a house cleaner come in for the first time was fucking weird. Still is, really. I can't relax, feel like I ought to be helping. A long time ago, I had a house cleaner come in once per week to do deep cleaning stuff. It was quite a luxury! However, I always spent a couple of hours cleaning the house in preparation for their arrival. What I've noticed is a shift with age and wealth. When I was young and poor, I had time and energy in abundance and never hired people to do anything for me (excepting for specialized things like medical care). Now that I'm old and more comfortable, I don't have any issue hiring people to do things I can technically do myself. I look at it this way: whether you hire someone or DIY it, you're paying something to get it done. If not money, then time and effort. I just pay in the manner that, big picture, costs me the least. When young and poor, my time and effort was worth less than actual money. Now, money is often worth less than my time and effort. Is it worth paying $50 to have the neighborhood kid mow my lawn for me? Younger me would say absolutely not. Current me says absolutely.