6 ms·

Maybe if we weren't so puritanical, this would be less of an issue. So you have a picture of my junk? Ok... nobody wants it and it isn't worth anything. Should

Maybe if we weren't so puritanical, this would be less of an issue. So you have a picture of my junk? Ok... nobody wants it and it isn't worth anything. Should I be embarrassed that I have something 50% of other humans have? It'd be interesting to see the differences int his sort of crime in more open cultures.

toader 3y ago
Either you are a far outlier with confidence abounds, or you don't remember what life as a teenager is like for most.
andy99 3y ago
There have been some high profile cases of people standing up to similar scams, including Bezos. It (standing up to bullies - edit: extortionists is a better characterization than bully) is commendable behvaior and needs to be better publicized as such, hopefully it will make some people feel more comfortable doing the same.
- auggierose 3y ago
  Somebody like Bezos probably just sends out hitmen after anybody trying this with him.
  - cafard 3y ago
    Not so effective when they guy trying it is the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, and has demonstrated that he has quite efficient hitmen of his own.
    - tcmart14 3y ago
      This has the basis to being probably a pretty good action movie.
    - auggierose 3y ago
      I guess that's a first-strike-wins scenario then. As long as he doesn't visit a Saudi embassy, I would bet on Bezos.
      - lupire 3y ago
        Bezos said he married his first wife because he thought she could bust him out of a Venezuelan prison if needed. Then he divorced her and married a newsreader. So I wouldn't bet on him.
- busterarm 3y ago
  Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies. We're teaching our kids to be helpless. The only option we give them is to appeal to authority and it absolutely fucks them over when they're involved in a situation because of their own choices.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    I agree. "Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies." So it's not really the standing up part but the policy that gets them expelled.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      Rigid, uncaring administrative bodies can often end up being bullies too.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        I think it's mostly that they don't want to get sued for making a bad judgement call, so they default to ham-fisted policies where no judgment is applied. But of course the schools get sued all the time anyways, usually due to stupid policies.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - theGnuMe 3y ago
    >Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. I think this is false. You can stand up to a bully without physical fighting or retaliation.
sourcecodeplz 3y ago
[flagged]
- ngai_aku 3y ago
  You think only kids in the West are susceptible to shame?
- zeroCalories 3y ago
  [flagged]
MeImCounting 3y ago
It really does come down to our society having a sick relationship with sex, our bodies and interpersonal relationships in general. I think we are really going to go through some growing pains in the near future when it comes to our 18th century morality in this 21st century world. Hopefully we can move past restrictive religious ways of looking at the world and actually prevent things like what happened in the article.
- sojsurf 3y ago
  The foundation for healthy interpersonal relationships seems deeply tied into the core values of (some) "restrictive religious ways". "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." I would posit that the closer people walk to those ideals, the healthier their society will be. That said, Christians, in general, would agree with you that law by its very nature has no power to bring about good in people. That's pretty much one of the core tenets. In the end, laws serve only like the double yellow line in the middle of American highways. It's a guide that helps us share the road without hurting others. The guard rails of commitment, love and genuine care for others brings about an environment where relationships can flourish. They provide stability and care that children need to thrive emotionally. They keep us from swerving into relational "oncoming traffic" when we get frustrated or angry, instead encouraging us to stay in the lane and figure out how to work together.
user568439 3y ago
Maybe or maybe not. Don’t blame the victims please. I’m not from a puritan environment at all but when I was a teenager I had low self esteem. I believe I could have been an easy victim back then.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  It isn't blaming the victim to have a candid conversation around how society and individuals can or could be more resilient. This is how progress happens. For example, we often educate children to set boundaries and tell adults about unwanted sexual advances. That doesn't mean that children who failed to set boundaries and tell adults deserve to be molested. .
- giantg2 3y ago
  I'm not blaming the victim, rather the societal views that enabled this (in part). I too had some body insecurity at that age, but more societal openness would have likely reduced that.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
There are other forms of extortion or they could make something up. Are you saying that extortion would be impossible in a non-puritanical society?
- bondarchuk 3y ago
  That is clearly not what they are saying.
gnicholas 3y ago
I have wondered if generative AI will make this less of an issue. Victims won't be as afraid of images leaking out if they can plausibly claim that they're fakes.
- throwaway421967 3y ago
  Yeah, if fakes are already out there. What value does the real thing have?
  - lupire 3y ago
    If the solution is a stop caring about anything, the cure is worse than the disease.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Yep, this is already happening, although the victims seem to still be pissed.
watt 3y ago
It does not necessarily need to be picture of anyone's junk. It does not need even to be a picture. So let's focus on the real issue here. Puritanism or whatever, extortion needs to be impossible.
- mxkopy 3y ago
  A war on crime can always be used as a scapegoat for other things, but promoting a culture of resilience through acceptance is a weird thing to hijack IMO.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- MeImCounting 3y ago
  How does someone make extortion impossible? What does that look like?
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    We could all agree that you get forgiven for anything publicized by a blackmailer.
    - MeImCounting 3y ago
      So kind of like getting rid of puritanical moral standards across society? There are some things people deserve to feel shame for (basically anything you intentionally do that hurts other people). Having junk between your legs is not one of those things. Ditto for 99% of the other things people get blackmailed for.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        That's a start, but I think it may take more than that. Many discussions here about freedom of speech and the value of anonymity to this; the freedom to express ideas without worrying it may explode in our faces later. I think right-leaning people use "cancel culture" to describe the same category of concerns. At lest, I hope that's what they mean by the term. Business and governments say similar things, saying that if every meeting is recorded, people will be less willing to speak up. A society where we don't care about people having had dumb opinions in the past would help more… but that creates a game theoretic risk, we need some kind of reputation system to avoid the iterated prisoners' dilemma degenerating into the ordinary prisoners' dilemma. I don't have any complete answers. But at the same time, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, we can certainly make things better.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
That is one solution that is impossible to implement. We must recognize that any system that involves people must involve involve people.
fasthands9 3y ago
These cases may also be effective in situations where the victim has a significant other so the release of private transcripts is not nearly "a picture of their junk". I think if you want to reduce the shame of people in situations, the absolute best thing to do is to make extortion a crime that law enforcement has the ability to prosecute forcefully. If that's the case, people who are in this situation know that the law and the resources of the law are on their side. I think this law -> culture change has already been shown to work in similar situations. For instance, when women know that law enforcement will help them investigate sexual harassment/assault it makes it means they have less shame about dressing/socializing how they want.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Extortion is already illegal and will be prosecuted, similar to sexual harassment. What else would you change?
devoutsalsa 3y ago
Now I'm wondering if 1-800-GOT-JUNK has a secret list of services.
nitwit005 3y ago
They'd just try a different scam. There is always going to be ways to hurt or threaten to hurt people.
gspencley 3y ago
I don't want to make light of the situation, a teenager committing suicide is a horrible, avoidable tragedy. Your comment reminds me of the first time I received the phishing scam where the email claims that your computer was hacked and that the hacker has a video of you pleasuring yourself that they will allegedly send to all of your contacts if you don't pay them money. After immediately recognizing that it was a phish, my second thought was "I value that money way more than I value my dignity ... so even if this were legit ... sorry grandma!"

toader 3y ago

Either you are a far outlier with confidence abounds, or you don't remember what life as a teenager is like for most.

andy99 3y ago

There have been some high profile cases of people standing up to similar scams, including Bezos. It (standing up to bullies - edit: extortionists is a better characterization than bully) is commendable behvaior and needs to be better publicized as such, hopefully it will make some people feel more comfortable doing the same.

auggierose 3y ago
Somebody like Bezos probably just sends out hitmen after anybody trying this with him.
- cafard 3y ago
  Not so effective when they guy trying it is the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, and has demonstrated that he has quite efficient hitmen of his own.
  - tcmart14 3y ago
    This has the basis to being probably a pretty good action movie.
  - auggierose 3y ago
    I guess that's a first-strike-wins scenario then. As long as he doesn't visit a Saudi embassy, I would bet on Bezos.
    - lupire 3y ago
      Bezos said he married his first wife because he thought she could bust him out of a Venezuelan prison if needed. Then he divorced her and married a newsreader. So I wouldn't bet on him.
busterarm 3y ago
Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies. We're teaching our kids to be helpless. The only option we give them is to appeal to authority and it absolutely fucks them over when they're involved in a situation because of their own choices.
- giantg2 3y ago
  I agree. "Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies." So it's not really the standing up part but the policy that gets them expelled.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    Rigid, uncaring administrative bodies can often end up being bullies too.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      I think it's mostly that they don't want to get sued for making a bad judgement call, so they default to ham-fisted policies where no judgment is applied. But of course the schools get sued all the time anyways, usually due to stupid policies.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- theGnuMe 3y ago
  >Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. I think this is false. You can stand up to a bully without physical fighting or retaliation.

sourcecodeplz 3y ago

[flagged]

ngai_aku 3y ago
You think only kids in the West are susceptible to shame?
zeroCalories 3y ago
[flagged]

MeImCounting 3y ago

It really does come down to our society having a sick relationship with sex, our bodies and interpersonal relationships in general. I think we are really going to go through some growing pains in the near future when it comes to our 18th century morality in this 21st century world. Hopefully we can move past restrictive religious ways of looking at the world and actually prevent things like what happened in the article.

sojsurf 3y ago
The foundation for healthy interpersonal relationships seems deeply tied into the core values of (some) "restrictive religious ways". "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." I would posit that the closer people walk to those ideals, the healthier their society will be. That said, Christians, in general, would agree with you that law by its very nature has no power to bring about good in people. That's pretty much one of the core tenets. In the end, laws serve only like the double yellow line in the middle of American highways. It's a guide that helps us share the road without hurting others. The guard rails of commitment, love and genuine care for others brings about an environment where relationships can flourish. They provide stability and care that children need to thrive emotionally. They keep us from swerving into relational "oncoming traffic" when we get frustrated or angry, instead encouraging us to stay in the lane and figure out how to work together.

user568439 3y ago

Maybe or maybe not. Don’t blame the victims please. I’m not from a puritan environment at all but when I was a teenager I had low self esteem. I believe I could have been an easy victim back then.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
It isn't blaming the victim to have a candid conversation around how society and individuals can or could be more resilient. This is how progress happens. For example, we often educate children to set boundaries and tell adults about unwanted sexual advances. That doesn't mean that children who failed to set boundaries and tell adults deserve to be molested. .
giantg2 3y ago
I'm not blaming the victim, rather the societal views that enabled this (in part). I too had some body insecurity at that age, but more societal openness would have likely reduced that.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

There are other forms of extortion or they could make something up. Are you saying that extortion would be impossible in a non-puritanical society?

bondarchuk 3y ago
That is clearly not what they are saying.

gnicholas 3y ago

I have wondered if generative AI will make this less of an issue. Victims won't be as afraid of images leaking out if they can plausibly claim that they're fakes.

throwaway421967 3y ago
Yeah, if fakes are already out there. What value does the real thing have?
- lupire 3y ago
  If the solution is a stop caring about anything, the cure is worse than the disease.
giantg2 3y ago
Yep, this is already happening, although the victims seem to still be pissed.

watt 3y ago

It does not necessarily need to be picture of anyone's junk. It does not need even to be a picture. So let's focus on the real issue here. Puritanism or whatever, extortion needs to be impossible.

mxkopy 3y ago
A war on crime can always be used as a scapegoat for other things, but promoting a culture of resilience through acceptance is a weird thing to hijack IMO.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
MeImCounting 3y ago
How does someone make extortion impossible? What does that look like?
- whatshisface 3y ago
  We could all agree that you get forgiven for anything publicized by a blackmailer.
  - MeImCounting 3y ago
    So kind of like getting rid of puritanical moral standards across society? There are some things people deserve to feel shame for (basically anything you intentionally do that hurts other people). Having junk between your legs is not one of those things. Ditto for 99% of the other things people get blackmailed for.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      That's a start, but I think it may take more than that. Many discussions here about freedom of speech and the value of anonymity to this; the freedom to express ideas without worrying it may explode in our faces later. I think right-leaning people use "cancel culture" to describe the same category of concerns. At lest, I hope that's what they mean by the term. Business and governments say similar things, saying that if every meeting is recorded, people will be less willing to speak up. A society where we don't care about people having had dumb opinions in the past would help more… but that creates a game theoretic risk, we need some kind of reputation system to avoid the iterated prisoners' dilemma degenerating into the ordinary prisoners' dilemma. I don't have any complete answers. But at the same time, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, we can certainly make things better.

thomastjeffery 3y ago

That is one solution that is impossible to implement. We must recognize that any system that involves people must involve involve people.

fasthands9 3y ago

These cases may also be effective in situations where the victim has a significant other so the release of private transcripts is not nearly "a picture of their junk". I think if you want to reduce the shame of people in situations, the absolute best thing to do is to make extortion a crime that law enforcement has the ability to prosecute forcefully. If that's the case, people who are in this situation know that the law and the resources of the law are on their side. I think this law -> culture change has already been shown to work in similar situations. For instance, when women know that law enforcement will help them investigate sexual harassment/assault it makes it means they have less shame about dressing/socializing how they want.

giantg2 3y ago
Extortion is already illegal and will be prosecuted, similar to sexual harassment. What else would you change?

devoutsalsa 3y ago

Now I'm wondering if 1-800-GOT-JUNK has a secret list of services.

nitwit005 3y ago

They'd just try a different scam. There is always going to be ways to hurt or threaten to hurt people.

gspencley 3y ago

I don't want to make light of the situation, a teenager committing suicide is a horrible, avoidable tragedy. Your comment reminds me of the first time I received the phishing scam where the email claims that your computer was hacked and that the hacker has a video of you pleasuring yourself that they will allegedly send to all of your contacts if you don't pay them money. After immediately recognizing that it was a phish, my second thought was "I value that money way more than I value my dignity ... so even if this were legit ... sorry grandma!"