5 ms·

Lead maintainer of urllib3 here: We're tracking all the options for how we can make the experience better for folks looking to use Python in the browser. Today

Lead maintainer of urllib3 here: We're tracking all the options for how we can make the experience better for folks looking to use Python in the browser. Today our biggest blocker is that there's no socket or TLS APIs for Emscripten/WASI. If those were to become available we'd jump on them right away :) I think the biggest benefit of a foundational project like urllib3 getting browser support is that /many/ Python projects are built on top of urllib3 and many of them likely work in browsers now that urllib3 works in the browser. For example, Requests is built on top of urllib3 and now gets browser support for free! And this is recursive, how many projects use Requests (spoiler: many). Pretty exciting IMO :)

canadiantim 3y ago
wow that's awesome. That we could even talk about potentially using just python to make requests in browser is pretty wild (of course, as you say still blocks in the way - lack of socket or TLS APIs for Emscripten/WASI). Really cool stuff tho. All the best eh and thank you VERY much for the incredible urllib3 library.
SushiHippie 3y ago
Do you know if there are some plans for sockets or TLS APIs or are we far away from this?
- SethMLarson 3y ago
  Browsers limit the ability for these platforms to use raw sockets, there simply is no API for it. The best that can be done /today/ is to use WebSockets, which are not the same thing and can't be used for HTTP requests without the server expecting a WebSocket connection: https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/5196#issuecomment-299442038 https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/5196#is...
  - SushiHippie 3y ago
    Sure, sorry if it wasn't clear from my question, it wasn't specifically about urllib3, but I meant if there are plans that browsers will make such an API available or if this is something that will never become real.
    - sillysaurusx 3y ago
      I doubt browsers would allow this, though gamedevs have wanted it for decades now. Particularly UDP.
      - plopz 3y ago
        isn't the udp problem fixed with http3 unreliable webtransport?
        sillysaurusx 3y ago
        Is it? That would be cool. Under the hood is it actual udp?
        SushiHippie 3y ago
        HTTP3 uses QUIC, it's not "pure" UDP, but it's a protocol based on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC
        plopz 3y ago
        its udp with encryption and congestion control, but the aspects that gamedevs like about udp, low latency and out of order delivery without head of line blocking are features https://developer.chrome.com/docs/capabilities/web-apis/webtransport https://developer.chrome.com/docs/capabilities/web-apis/webt...
at_a_remove 3y ago
Thank you for your work on urllib3; I will probably never use Requests if I can help it. I'm glad that you're keeping up that "batteries included" tradition.
mistrial9 3y ago
except the browser context is being sandboxed with lots of access restriction, individual profiling, geolocation reporting, device identification, and more Big Tech does not like independent protocol operation it seems; therefore your interesting technical advance is likely to be a pawn in other, larger changes to the social contracts on the open net IMHO

canadiantim 3y ago

wow that's awesome. That we could even talk about potentially using just python to make requests in browser is pretty wild (of course, as you say still blocks in the way - lack of socket or TLS APIs for Emscripten/WASI). Really cool stuff tho. All the best eh and thank you VERY much for the incredible urllib3 library.

SushiHippie 3y ago

Do you know if there are some plans for sockets or TLS APIs or are we far away from this?

SethMLarson 3y ago
Browsers limit the ability for these platforms to use raw sockets, there simply is no API for it. The best that can be done /today/ is to use WebSockets, which are not the same thing and can't be used for HTTP requests without the server expecting a WebSocket connection: https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/5196#issuecomment-299442038 https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/issues/5196#is...
- SushiHippie 3y ago
  Sure, sorry if it wasn't clear from my question, it wasn't specifically about urllib3, but I meant if there are plans that browsers will make such an API available or if this is something that will never become real.
  - sillysaurusx 3y ago
    I doubt browsers would allow this, though gamedevs have wanted it for decades now. Particularly UDP.
    - plopz 3y ago
      isn't the udp problem fixed with http3 unreliable webtransport?
      - sillysaurusx 3y ago
        Is it? That would be cool. Under the hood is it actual udp?
        SushiHippie 3y ago
        HTTP3 uses QUIC, it's not "pure" UDP, but it's a protocol based on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC
        plopz 3y ago
        its udp with encryption and congestion control, but the aspects that gamedevs like about udp, low latency and out of order delivery without head of line blocking are features https://developer.chrome.com/docs/capabilities/web-apis/webtransport https://developer.chrome.com/docs/capabilities/web-apis/webt...

at_a_remove 3y ago

Thank you for your work on urllib3; I will probably never use Requests if I can help it. I'm glad that you're keeping up that "batteries included" tradition.

mistrial9 3y ago

except the browser context is being sandboxed with lots of access restriction, individual profiling, geolocation reporting, device identification, and more Big Tech does not like independent protocol operation it seems; therefore your interesting technical advance is likely to be a pawn in other, larger changes to the social contracts on the open net IMHO