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I appreciate that. As someone with a hobby making software, I can see the need for hiring at some point but I don't even know where to start. Do you just look u

I appreciate that. As someone with a hobby making software, I can see the need for hiring at some point but I don't even know where to start. Do you just look up one online and call and say "I got a nasty letter, will you be my attorney"? Is there some kind of ongoing subscription cost to keep being "my attorney" or just pay per hour when you have an issue?

chociej 3y ago
For small, transactional dealings where the amount of work is easy to predict, there may just be a fixed fee for that. For more open-ended work, it is often billed by the hour (time and expense). If the work is non-trivial, they may ask for a retainer, which is a down payment against future hourly work and expenses incurred by the firm. Another common billing model, called contingency, is generally reserved for cases where the firm is optimistic they will be able to receive a significant monetary judgment or settlement, which they will take part of for their time and effort.
hiddencost 3y ago
Getting connected to an attorney by someone you trust is the best path. Just picking one after googling is dangerous. Expect to pay more than you expect to pay. ETA: America is a "pay to play" country, and those payments are mediated by lawyers. What I mean is: enforcement of laws mostly happens via suing people, and you need to be able to pay an attorney to win that suit.
ncallaway 3y ago
I’d start by asking people around you if they know an attorney. Recommendations from people you know will almost always be more valuable than a Google search. If you don’t know anyone that would be in the area of law that you’re looking for, ask for _any_ attorney recommendations, then ask those attorneys for recommendations for people in the area of law you need. If you absolutely cannot find a lawyer through people you know (and, really, try asking people), then you can look up a lawyer referral service for your state. Most state or county bars will have some program for making referrals to lawyers. Often these will have a low-ish flat fee, which will get your a short initial consultation with a few lawyers in the relevant area of law. For billing, it’s something to ask your lawyer, thought most lawyers will have some kind of billing program where you pay hourly for what you use, and don’t need to pay some ongoing fee just to have the lawyer as “your lawyer”. Small business that only need a lawyer for a few hours a couple times a year aren’t uncommon clients for business lawyers.
- KieranMac 3y ago
  The problem with this advice is that this is a very niche area of law. Unless the people you know have had prior experiences with data-access/web-scraping legal issues, a generalist recommendation is very unlikely to be helpful here.
  - ncallaway 3y ago
    > If you don’t know anyone that would be in the area of law that you’re looking for, ask for _any_ attorney recommendations, then ask those attorneys for recommendations for people in the area of law you need. Attorneys know attorneys. I’d still recommend starting with your network, then asking those attorneys who they would recommend for the services you need. Or ask them if they know anyone that might be able to refer you.
    - KieranMac 3y ago
      There are probably two dozen specialists on this issue nationwide. A properly targeted Google search will outperform your personal network of attorneys (and their network of attorneys) 99.9% of the time.
      - ncallaway 3y ago
        Your assertion is that there are <= 24 lawyers, in the entire United States, that are qualified to handle a hobbyist software developer receiving a C&D? I’m sorry, that just doesn’t sound at all credible to me. It almost cannot be accurate by definition. There is no legal service that a hobbyist could _ever_ afford if there are <= 24 qualified specialists in the United States.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I can see the need for hiring at some point but I don't even know where to start. I have advice for this. Most attorneys, at least in my area, will sit down and talk with you at no charge. My advice is to take advantage of this before you have an actual issue that needs attention and talk with a few of them. Investigate them, talk to their clients if you can, ask about them with professional organizations, etc. And then just use them for routine stuff every so often. Run contracts by them before you sign, etc. The idea is that you want to develop a relationship with them so that you and they know each other. Then, if something comes up where you really need an attorney, yours is already very familiar with you and what you're doing. > Is there some kind of ongoing subscription cost to keep being "my attorney" or just pay per hour when you have an issue? There is a concept of keeping an attorney "on retainer" -- which basically means prepaying for legal services. At a small scale, this isn't worth doing. Treat your attorney like your auto mechanic: keep a relationship going, go to them for your oil changes and other routine stuff, and pay by the hour. Then when you need important work done, they're primed and ready.
- KieranMac 3y ago
  This is all good advice.

chociej 3y ago

For small, transactional dealings where the amount of work is easy to predict, there may just be a fixed fee for that. For more open-ended work, it is often billed by the hour (time and expense). If the work is non-trivial, they may ask for a retainer, which is a down payment against future hourly work and expenses incurred by the firm. Another common billing model, called contingency, is generally reserved for cases where the firm is optimistic they will be able to receive a significant monetary judgment or settlement, which they will take part of for their time and effort.

hiddencost 3y ago

Getting connected to an attorney by someone you trust is the best path. Just picking one after googling is dangerous. Expect to pay more than you expect to pay. ETA: America is a "pay to play" country, and those payments are mediated by lawyers. What I mean is: enforcement of laws mostly happens via suing people, and you need to be able to pay an attorney to win that suit.

ncallaway 3y ago

I’d start by asking people around you if they know an attorney. Recommendations from people you know will almost always be more valuable than a Google search. If you don’t know anyone that would be in the area of law that you’re looking for, ask for _any_ attorney recommendations, then ask those attorneys for recommendations for people in the area of law you need. If you absolutely cannot find a lawyer through people you know (and, really, try asking people), then you can look up a lawyer referral service for your state. Most state or county bars will have some program for making referrals to lawyers. Often these will have a low-ish flat fee, which will get your a short initial consultation with a few lawyers in the relevant area of law. For billing, it’s something to ask your lawyer, thought most lawyers will have some kind of billing program where you pay hourly for what you use, and don’t need to pay some ongoing fee just to have the lawyer as “your lawyer”. Small business that only need a lawyer for a few hours a couple times a year aren’t uncommon clients for business lawyers.

KieranMac 3y ago
The problem with this advice is that this is a very niche area of law. Unless the people you know have had prior experiences with data-access/web-scraping legal issues, a generalist recommendation is very unlikely to be helpful here.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  > If you don’t know anyone that would be in the area of law that you’re looking for, ask for _any_ attorney recommendations, then ask those attorneys for recommendations for people in the area of law you need. Attorneys know attorneys. I’d still recommend starting with your network, then asking those attorneys who they would recommend for the services you need. Or ask them if they know anyone that might be able to refer you.
  - KieranMac 3y ago
    There are probably two dozen specialists on this issue nationwide. A properly targeted Google search will outperform your personal network of attorneys (and their network of attorneys) 99.9% of the time.
    - ncallaway 3y ago
      Your assertion is that there are <= 24 lawyers, in the entire United States, that are qualified to handle a hobbyist software developer receiving a C&D? I’m sorry, that just doesn’t sound at all credible to me. It almost cannot be accurate by definition. There is no legal service that a hobbyist could _ever_ afford if there are <= 24 qualified specialists in the United States.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I can see the need for hiring at some point but I don't even know where to start. I have advice for this. Most attorneys, at least in my area, will sit down and talk with you at no charge. My advice is to take advantage of this before you have an actual issue that needs attention and talk with a few of them. Investigate them, talk to their clients if you can, ask about them with professional organizations, etc. And then just use them for routine stuff every so often. Run contracts by them before you sign, etc. The idea is that you want to develop a relationship with them so that you and they know each other. Then, if something comes up where you really need an attorney, yours is already very familiar with you and what you're doing. > Is there some kind of ongoing subscription cost to keep being "my attorney" or just pay per hour when you have an issue? There is a concept of keeping an attorney "on retainer" -- which basically means prepaying for legal services. At a small scale, this isn't worth doing. Treat your attorney like your auto mechanic: keep a relationship going, go to them for your oil changes and other routine stuff, and pay by the hour. Then when you need important work done, they're primed and ready.

KieranMac 3y ago
This is all good advice.