2 ms·

"If education worked, we wouldn’t see stats going up contrary to the rest of the world." This isn't really true. Most other developed nations have much stricte

"If education worked, we wouldn’t see stats going up contrary to the rest of the world." This isn't really true. Most other developed nations have much stricter licensing with much lower fatality rates. Yes, enforcement is definitely an issue too. Progress penalties and fines tied to income levels (or vehicle values) would be a good start.

acdha 3y ago
It is really true. There are various causes being debated but we’re the only rich country where the fatality rate is moving in the wrong direction: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/12/10/briefing/oakImage-1702214892119/oakImage-1702214892119-mobileMasterAt3x.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/12/10/briefing/oakImage... The source article covers why some of the theories can’t explain the difference on their own: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/briefing/us-traffic-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/briefing/us-traffic-death...
- giantg2 3y ago
  I can't read your pay walled article. "It is really true. There are various causes being debated but we’re the only rich country where the fatality rate is moving in the wrong direction:" I'm not sure we're on the same page with what I'm taking issue with. The requirements to get a license are a joke in the US. The other nations with lower fatalities have stricter licensing. Yes, it won't explain it on it's own, but it is highly correlated and supported by studies around stricter licensing in other nations and graduated licensing in the US. But your claim that if education worked the stats wouldn't be going up has no basis in anything you've posted. The overall licensing has not improved in the US. The jurisdictions in your chart have much stricter requirements.
  - acdha 3y ago
    The graph is not paywalled, and that’s really most of it. You can use IA for the rest: https://web.archive.org/web/20231211115919/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/briefing/us-traffic-deaths.html https://web.archive.org/web/20231211115919/https://www.nytim... The general point, however, is simple: neither the US nor our peer countries significantly changed licensing requirements in the last 10-20 years. We didn’t suddenly stop doing public safety campaigns, either, but the United States is the only country where the fatality rate suddenly started going back up. The licensing hypothesis could explain why our numbers are higher in absolute terms but not that stark, sudden increase in legality – even if we made the license exams much easier in the mid-2010s, that wouldn’t affect the majority of drivers who already had their licenses by then.

acdha 3y ago

It is really true. There are various causes being debated but we’re the only rich country where the fatality rate is moving in the wrong direction: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/12/10/briefing/oakImage-1702214892119/oakImage-1702214892119-mobileMasterAt3x.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/12/10/briefing/oakImage... The source article covers why some of the theories can’t explain the difference on their own: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/briefing/us-traffic-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/briefing/us-traffic-death...

giantg2 3y ago
I can't read your pay walled article. "It is really true. There are various causes being debated but we’re the only rich country where the fatality rate is moving in the wrong direction:" I'm not sure we're on the same page with what I'm taking issue with. The requirements to get a license are a joke in the US. The other nations with lower fatalities have stricter licensing. Yes, it won't explain it on it's own, but it is highly correlated and supported by studies around stricter licensing in other nations and graduated licensing in the US. But your claim that if education worked the stats wouldn't be going up has no basis in anything you've posted. The overall licensing has not improved in the US. The jurisdictions in your chart have much stricter requirements.
- acdha 3y ago
  The graph is not paywalled, and that’s really most of it. You can use IA for the rest: https://web.archive.org/web/20231211115919/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/briefing/us-traffic-deaths.html https://web.archive.org/web/20231211115919/https://www.nytim... The general point, however, is simple: neither the US nor our peer countries significantly changed licensing requirements in the last 10-20 years. We didn’t suddenly stop doing public safety campaigns, either, but the United States is the only country where the fatality rate suddenly started going back up. The licensing hypothesis could explain why our numbers are higher in absolute terms but not that stark, sudden increase in legality – even if we made the license exams much easier in the mid-2010s, that wouldn’t affect the majority of drivers who already had their licenses by then.