4 ms·

This remedy was already valid for normal human drivers. I am more concerned about automatic drivers not honoring the "Vertrauensgrundsatz" (principle of trust)

by lynx23 3y ago

This remedy was already valid for normal human drivers. I am more concerned about automatic drivers not honoring the "Vertrauensgrundsatz" (principle of trust) which is a traffic law from my area whic, to my knowledge, doesnt even have a counterpart in the US. Basically, drivers learn that there are two classes of pedestrians: "normal" pedestrians, and those which basically cant be trusted. IOW, drunk or blind people. If you run over one of those, the likelihood of it being your fault rises.

aeonik 3y ago
I don't understand your reply. Yes, my suggested solution applies to everyone. I suggested it to you because you have fear, many people do not. The solutions certainly lower individual risk. It also sounded ironic to me, I thought others might notice and appreciate the irony in my suggestion. I don't understand how "Vertrauensgrundsatz" applies here.
- lynx23 3y ago
  To put it in more direct terms, I wnder if AI training does and/or can even distinguish between different classes of pedestrians. I am suspecting the current approach is to treat them all the same. Which would result in a driver that doesnt know and therefore violates the "Vertrauensgrundsatz", someone who wouldnt even get a drivers license where I dwell...
  - anonylizard 3y ago
    Are you aware of the recent developments in AI at all? This isn't an unsolved challenge, video multimodals would likely crush this problem. However, the advanced, LLM based systems with tons of world knowledge (and therefore can easily tell if a pedestrian is abnormal) take tons of processing power and latency, so cannot be deployed in the current AI driving systems. So it'll take 5-10 years for this to be solved. Also hope you know that Germany isn't the center of the world. Its not even the center in terms of cars anymore. German regulators don't get to dictate the progress of self driving.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      When it comes to regulations, I hope my country is actually "the center of the world". Actually, the attitude you display in your last paragraph is more confirmation of my suspiicion then I actually want. Tech innovation people like you easily take a few dea people as long as innovation is not hindered. I am afraid of you guys.
      - anonylizard 3y ago
        Wow, letting German regulation be the center of the world. Have you forgotten dieselgate? And how German regulators were in bed with the car companies? You are not afraid of corrupt bureaucrats, but of idealistic innovators trying to change the world? By the way, there is no way to tame safety via checklists or 'policies'. Boeing sure had checklists and layers of policies trying to control risk, can't save them when they outsource everything to workers who don't give a crap about their job. But people in the AI world care, they absolutely do care about what they build. Pride and passion in their work beats any checklists, and I'm confident self driving cars will be a massive safety boon for all.

by lynx23 3y ago

aeonik 3y ago

I don't understand your reply. Yes, my suggested solution applies to everyone. I suggested it to you because you have fear, many people do not. The solutions certainly lower individual risk. It also sounded ironic to me, I thought others might notice and appreciate the irony in my suggestion. I don't understand how "Vertrauensgrundsatz" applies here.

lynx23 3y ago
To put it in more direct terms, I wnder if AI training does and/or can even distinguish between different classes of pedestrians. I am suspecting the current approach is to treat them all the same. Which would result in a driver that doesnt know and therefore violates the "Vertrauensgrundsatz", someone who wouldnt even get a drivers license where I dwell...
- anonylizard 3y ago
  Are you aware of the recent developments in AI at all? This isn't an unsolved challenge, video multimodals would likely crush this problem. However, the advanced, LLM based systems with tons of world knowledge (and therefore can easily tell if a pedestrian is abnormal) take tons of processing power and latency, so cannot be deployed in the current AI driving systems. So it'll take 5-10 years for this to be solved. Also hope you know that Germany isn't the center of the world. Its not even the center in terms of cars anymore. German regulators don't get to dictate the progress of self driving.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    When it comes to regulations, I hope my country is actually "the center of the world". Actually, the attitude you display in your last paragraph is more confirmation of my suspiicion then I actually want. Tech innovation people like you easily take a few dea people as long as innovation is not hindered. I am afraid of you guys.
    - anonylizard 3y ago
      Wow, letting German regulation be the center of the world. Have you forgotten dieselgate? And how German regulators were in bed with the car companies? You are not afraid of corrupt bureaucrats, but of idealistic innovators trying to change the world? By the way, there is no way to tame safety via checklists or 'policies'. Boeing sure had checklists and layers of policies trying to control risk, can't save them when they outsource everything to workers who don't give a crap about their job. But people in the AI world care, they absolutely do care about what they build. Pride and passion in their work beats any checklists, and I'm confident self driving cars will be a massive safety boon for all.