4 ms·

The non-profit arm is a tiny insignificant part of their business now. They stopped being education and charity focused during covid and are only really interes

by esskay 3y ago

The non-profit arm is a tiny insignificant part of their business now. They stopped being education and charity focused during covid and are only really interested in their B2B customers these days.

schappim 3y ago
You've got it the wrong way around. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a shareholder in Raspberry Pi Ltd, not vice versa. It benefits from the profits generated by the commercial arm. The commercial arm was established on 10 September 2012 [1]. [1] https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08207441 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...
- palata 3y ago
  > You've got it the wrong way around. I don't see how it is the wrong way around: what you are saying is that they are a for-profit, and depending on how much profit they make with their business, the foundation gets more money to "play with", right?
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    The commercial entity, just like every other commercial company that has stock has stockholders. That happens to be - in part - the foundation. If there are profits then the stockholders, including the foundation, get a pro-rata payout named a dividend. But it can take a long time to make that scheme work at a level where the foundation can do what it would like to do so this IPO kind of gets a head start on those dividends, by selling some of the stock rather than to make a profit and wait they get some of that cash today, with the downside of being required to live in a glass house from now on and having somewhat reduced future dividends (assuming there are any).
    - hasty_pudding 3y ago
      Lotta words for "yes"
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    The similarities here with Mozilla are interesting.
  - alibarber 3y ago
    Well, where else is the foundation supposed to get the money from?
    - exe34 3y ago
      They could sell raspberry pi single board computers.
    - palata 3y ago
      Being a non-profit does not mean that you cannot sell stuff. I think it just means that you cannot make profit for it. So there is no incentive for stakeholders to make you grow infinitely, because they don't get money from that. At least that would be my understanding with a non-profit?
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    Which "they" are you talking about? There are the foundation and the company. The foundation partly owns the company and makes money from company. They are going to make more money from the IPO. The important question is how much does the foundation own and does it control the company. Non-profits that sells things like a business aren't allowed.
nsteel 3y ago
Do you have any evidence of a focus change during covid? Other than the obvious temporary changes all education outlets made during the pandemic? The charity still exists and still does all the same stuff: https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFoundationAnnualReview2022.pdf https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFounda...
- esskay 3y ago
  They shifted focus to B2B, with all inventory over the pandemic going to those customers. Despite the chip shortage ending a long time ago they continued to push the line that they were still suffering from it. Later they confirmed in a few interviews that they were doing 100k units a month to thier B2B customers (the reason cited was due to B2B customers livelihoods relying on it which is fair enough). There was a discussion it it at the time here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864152 Only once the Sony production line expanded did they get back on top of B2C supplies. Throughout the shortage their blog regularly made statements like "If you are a B2B customer get in touch, we can still supply you with Pis". In terms of their organisational structure, the charity does indeed still exist, but as I say it's a pretty small part of their business (and yes the charity exists for business) these days. Anyone active in Pi community circles will know that the consumer and education focus is very much going away, all be it slowly but that will no doubt pick up once they become listed and profits becomes the only focus.
  - nsteel 3y ago
    They had a stock shortage and they made a temporary decision you didn't like. We get that. There is still no evidence here... what you say is just that.
perbu 3y ago
A tiny insignificant part which owns the commerical part.
- esskay 3y ago
  Not sure what your point is there. Owning the commercial arm is pretty irrelevent. Most businesses are owned by a holding company that does nothing more than file a return once a year.
  - benj111 3y ago
    So? I don't know the precise structure, but Wikipedia is 'owned' by the wikimedia foundation. It could be owned by Disney. So the question is, who is the better custodian? A not for profit entity or a for profit one? Raspberry pi is part owned by the raspberry pi foundation. The raspberry pi foundation shouldn't have a profit motive, so in that sense is a better custodian than some for profit 'holding company'. No you could question, given they were prioritising business customers whether the foundation A) made the right decision or B) whether they have enough away over the company. To me this all seems reminiscent of free software v open source. A lot of people expected free(hard)ware, where it's becoming apparent it's more open source.
    - graemep 3y ago
      Given your Wikipedia example I think my answer would be "neither" :) The problem with non-profits owning profit making businesses is that it makes governance a lot more complex, tends to create conflicts of interest etc.
      - benj111 3y ago
        Is neither an option. A thing has to be owned by some entity. That entity has a choice of being profit making or not. You may not be satisfied with either of those choices, but that's a separate issue. A non profit still needs funds. The need for funds is going to create conflicts. Ultimately it come down to, do you want the millions that raspberry pi is making, going to some venture capitalist. Or do you want it going to some non profit. If they do decide to milk the cash cow, at least that money is going somewhere hopefully better for society.

by esskay 3y ago

The non-profit arm is a tiny insignificant part of their business now. They stopped being education and charity focused during covid and are only really interested in their B2B customers these days.

schappim 3y ago

You've got it the wrong way around. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a shareholder in Raspberry Pi Ltd, not vice versa. It benefits from the profits generated by the commercial arm. The commercial arm was established on 10 September 2012 [1]. [1] https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08207441 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...

palata 3y ago
> You've got it the wrong way around. I don't see how it is the wrong way around: what you are saying is that they are a for-profit, and depending on how much profit they make with their business, the foundation gets more money to "play with", right?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  The commercial entity, just like every other commercial company that has stock has stockholders. That happens to be - in part - the foundation. If there are profits then the stockholders, including the foundation, get a pro-rata payout named a dividend. But it can take a long time to make that scheme work at a level where the foundation can do what it would like to do so this IPO kind of gets a head start on those dividends, by selling some of the stock rather than to make a profit and wait they get some of that cash today, with the downside of being required to live in a glass house from now on and having somewhat reduced future dividends (assuming there are any).
  - hasty_pudding 3y ago
    Lotta words for "yes"
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  The similarities here with Mozilla are interesting.
- alibarber 3y ago
  Well, where else is the foundation supposed to get the money from?
  - exe34 3y ago
    They could sell raspberry pi single board computers.
  - palata 3y ago
    Being a non-profit does not mean that you cannot sell stuff. I think it just means that you cannot make profit for it. So there is no incentive for stakeholders to make you grow infinitely, because they don't get money from that. At least that would be my understanding with a non-profit?
- ianburrell 3y ago
  Which "they" are you talking about? There are the foundation and the company. The foundation partly owns the company and makes money from company. They are going to make more money from the IPO. The important question is how much does the foundation own and does it control the company. Non-profits that sells things like a business aren't allowed.

nsteel 3y ago

Do you have any evidence of a focus change during covid? Other than the obvious temporary changes all education outlets made during the pandemic? The charity still exists and still does all the same stuff: https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFoundationAnnualReview2022.pdf https://static.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFounda...

esskay 3y ago
They shifted focus to B2B, with all inventory over the pandemic going to those customers. Despite the chip shortage ending a long time ago they continued to push the line that they were still suffering from it. Later they confirmed in a few interviews that they were doing 100k units a month to thier B2B customers (the reason cited was due to B2B customers livelihoods relying on it which is fair enough). There was a discussion it it at the time here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864152 Only once the Sony production line expanded did they get back on top of B2C supplies. Throughout the shortage their blog regularly made statements like "If you are a B2B customer get in touch, we can still supply you with Pis". In terms of their organisational structure, the charity does indeed still exist, but as I say it's a pretty small part of their business (and yes the charity exists for business) these days. Anyone active in Pi community circles will know that the consumer and education focus is very much going away, all be it slowly but that will no doubt pick up once they become listed and profits becomes the only focus.
- nsteel 3y ago
  They had a stock shortage and they made a temporary decision you didn't like. We get that. There is still no evidence here... what you say is just that.

perbu 3y ago

A tiny insignificant part which owns the commerical part.

esskay 3y ago
Not sure what your point is there. Owning the commercial arm is pretty irrelevent. Most businesses are owned by a holding company that does nothing more than file a return once a year.
- benj111 3y ago
  So? I don't know the precise structure, but Wikipedia is 'owned' by the wikimedia foundation. It could be owned by Disney. So the question is, who is the better custodian? A not for profit entity or a for profit one? Raspberry pi is part owned by the raspberry pi foundation. The raspberry pi foundation shouldn't have a profit motive, so in that sense is a better custodian than some for profit 'holding company'. No you could question, given they were prioritising business customers whether the foundation A) made the right decision or B) whether they have enough away over the company. To me this all seems reminiscent of free software v open source. A lot of people expected free(hard)ware, where it's becoming apparent it's more open source.
  - graemep 3y ago
    Given your Wikipedia example I think my answer would be "neither" :) The problem with non-profits owning profit making businesses is that it makes governance a lot more complex, tends to create conflicts of interest etc.
    - benj111 3y ago
      Is neither an option. A thing has to be owned by some entity. That entity has a choice of being profit making or not. You may not be satisfied with either of those choices, but that's a separate issue. A non profit still needs funds. The need for funds is going to create conflicts. Ultimately it come down to, do you want the millions that raspberry pi is making, going to some venture capitalist. Or do you want it going to some non profit. If they do decide to milk the cash cow, at least that money is going somewhere hopefully better for society.