4 ms·

Ah, this may explain their abandonment of the 'hacker' community and weird hostility towards them over the last few years. They've gone from a fun project and

by esskay 3y ago

Ah, this may explain their abandonment of the 'hacker' community and weird hostility towards them over the last few years. They've gone from a fun project and education focused company who was mostly operating under their non-profit arm to better education, to a B2B enterprise supplier with a heavy handed and sometimes outright hatred to their original user base. For a proof of concept, pop onto their forums, create an account and make a post asking how to do something fairly basic, see how quickly you get yelled at and banned for life.

badcppdev 3y ago
Why don't you just add some links rather than suggesting people spam a user forum
- esskay 3y ago
  I'm not really suggesting people do that, just pointing out what happens. It's slightly difficult to post links to threads that they delete...
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
    I for one and willing to live with the egg on my face if you actually prove this. I am extremely, extremely skeptical that you are truthfully and wholly representing whatever situation you are referring to.
    - esskay 3y ago
      As I say, its fairly hard to demonstrate 'live' as they delete the posts, but if it helps here's a few reports of it, and related activities: - https://community.element14.com/products/raspberry-pi/f/forum/19543/banned-no-good-deed-goes-unpunished https://community.element14.com/products/raspberry-pi/f/foru... (lots of similar reports of weird bans) - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/raspberry-pi-forums-banned-me-again-ltlol-facepalmed-hardgt/ https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/raspberry-pi-forums-banne... (a few people reporting similar cases / reasons for being banned here) - https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=38424 https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=38424 (mod even confirms questioning mods will get you banned) - https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=78285 https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=78285 And somewhat unrelated to the forum, there's this https://eiara.nz/posts/2022/Dec/09/a-case-study-on-raspberry-pis-incident-on-the-fediverse/ https://eiara.nz/posts/2022/Dec/09/a-case-study-on-raspberry... which highlights the issues with the main person who's caused their forums and community to have such a hostile attitude towards its users. The followup interview will let you draw your own conclusions about the head of their social team... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/raspberry-pi-hired-ex-cop-mastodon-controversy https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/raspb...
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > And somewhat unrelated to the forum, there's this ... which highlights the issues with the main person who's caused their forums and community to have such a hostile attitude towards its users. The followup interview will let you draw your own conclusions about the head of their social team... What a ride. The entire story is nuts, from the start (of hiring an ex-cop and have him brag about covert devices, against a user base of traditionally cop-critical nerds) over the completely messed up response to critics over the conspiracy theory spreading and the "being ex cop is like being a Chinese woman" statement in the end.
      - arp242 3y ago
        You can find complaints like that for any forum that's been around for a while. You should see what some people are saying about HN for example. I've banned people a as moderator, and some of them have gone on to spread complete falsehoods about this. While I'm not saying there is not a problem or that all accounts are incorrect, I find it very hard to trust these accounts from random anonymous internet people. Especially not the type of person who goes off on rants that RaspberryPi is all a scam from Broadcom (or ... something) because that seems exactly the sort of person that should be banned. Hell, one of those links was just a new user mistakenly banned because they looked like a spambot, which was resolved quickly. That sort of thing that happens all the time. Did you even read your own links?
        esskay 3y ago
        I don't disagree that there are going to be a loud minority who genuinely did deserve a ban, and I did read the links, as I mentioned before though the links were only provided as a 'this is all I can provide short of you trying it yourself' as they tend to delete posts from new users who've been banned for asking a legitimate question. I was in a bit of a lose lose situation by posting.
    - joshxyz 3y ago
      [flagged]
phpisthebest 3y ago
That is the story of just about every technology.... or even community Sad but it remains true, Thing is created > Small but devoted group discovers and popularized thing > Thing raises to mass popularity > The masses what to change the thing to be what they think it "should be" diverging from what the small but devoted group desired or signed on for > Thing becomes unrecognizable to the original group > New thing is created > Small but devoted group.... and the cycle continues So the question is what will replace the Pi for the hacker community, I personally stopped buying Pi's for my personal projects a long time ago, rPI3 was the last one for me. Soo many other manufactures of SBC's out there making better, cheaper boards.
- theodric 3y ago
  If the Pi gets replaced, Chinese trash that is abandoned in a half-working state after zero updates will replace the Pi.* Or thin clients. Dark days ahead. *like, just random example, the Radxa Rock 3 https://youtu.be/KghZIgkKZcs https://youtu.be/KghZIgkKZcs
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    in this context what makes a difference if it is a Chinese companies abandoning the product vs a British company. Is china the only nations making "trash".... Further your video shows off several replacements with 1 having some kind of incompatibility with some carrier boards... Personally I have never been a fan of the Compute Module form factor anyway.. I prefer the full SBC boards. I think the Compute Module form factor lends itself to more complexity and issues. The SBC Market is huge now, and sure you can point to market failures, companies that dont survive, products that get abandoned every market will have those, and I see that as a GOOD THING. not a bad thing. That is capitalism, which I love, at work.
    - theodric 3y ago
      The British company hasn't abandoned anything. The Raspberry Pi 1 still has full, modern, feature-parity support in Raspberry Pi OS, eleven years after launch. But fine-- in my trash bin you'll find a Cubietruck, an Asus Tinkerboard, a MangoPi MQ-Pro, and several other Chinese SoC compute sticks. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me 5 times, shame on me. All were basically given up on by the original manufacturer, and some had some degree of support through Armbian (albeit with numerous features lost due to being walled off behind some inscrutable binary blob). The current alternative darling of the SBC enthusiast world, the Rockchip RK3588[S], does not have mainline kernel support and depends on a faux-5.x-series frankenkernel provided by Rockchip. Mainline support has been coming Real Soon Now for at least a year, and is in theory making progress, but I can't spend promises at the supermarket. If capitalism works by selling people a piece of shit that barely does what it's supposed to do at launch, doesn't have mainline support, and is consigned to the dustbin after a single dev cycle or two because the manufacturer has moved on to the next piece of shit they will sell to the next mark and then abandon shortly thereafter, then I guess I'm anti-capitalism now. They tell me it used to be about making money by selling a decent product, rather than selling obsolescence-at-launch, thereby scamming people by design. I don't need that kind of capitalism, but there's a lot of it coming out of China these days.
ben_w 3y ago
> For a proof of concept, pop onto their forums, create an account and make a post asking how to do something fairly basic, see how quickly you get yelled at and banned for life. This doesn't need the moderators to be secretly part of some plan to make money. I stopped posting questions on physics stack exchange years ago because what I was curious about vastly exceeded my ability to phrase those questions in a way that didn't sound like a crank, let alone be coherent, precise, and meaningful within the language of physics. Basically, I was writing like ChatGPT years before it existed. In one case, I even managed to get a "no", "yes" (in a comment) and "closed: duplicate" all on the same question. (IIRC, this particular comment was subsequently re-opened because one of the stack exchange moderators is also a HN commenter and noticed last time I said this; I don't blame the moderators for me being an enthusiastic fool).

by esskay 3y ago

badcppdev 3y ago

Why don't you just add some links rather than suggesting people spam a user forum

esskay 3y ago
I'm not really suggesting people do that, just pointing out what happens. It's slightly difficult to post links to threads that they delete...
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  I for one and willing to live with the egg on my face if you actually prove this. I am extremely, extremely skeptical that you are truthfully and wholly representing whatever situation you are referring to.
  - esskay 3y ago
    As I say, its fairly hard to demonstrate 'live' as they delete the posts, but if it helps here's a few reports of it, and related activities: - https://community.element14.com/products/raspberry-pi/f/forum/19543/banned-no-good-deed-goes-unpunished https://community.element14.com/products/raspberry-pi/f/foru... (lots of similar reports of weird bans) - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/raspberry-pi-forums-banned-me-again-ltlol-facepalmed-hardgt/ https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/raspberry-pi-forums-banne... (a few people reporting similar cases / reasons for being banned here) - https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=38424 https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=38424 (mod even confirms questioning mods will get you banned) - https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=78285 https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=78285 And somewhat unrelated to the forum, there's this https://eiara.nz/posts/2022/Dec/09/a-case-study-on-raspberry-pis-incident-on-the-fediverse/ https://eiara.nz/posts/2022/Dec/09/a-case-study-on-raspberry... which highlights the issues with the main person who's caused their forums and community to have such a hostile attitude towards its users. The followup interview will let you draw your own conclusions about the head of their social team... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/raspberry-pi-hired-ex-cop-mastodon-controversy https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/raspb...
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > And somewhat unrelated to the forum, there's this ... which highlights the issues with the main person who's caused their forums and community to have such a hostile attitude towards its users. The followup interview will let you draw your own conclusions about the head of their social team... What a ride. The entire story is nuts, from the start (of hiring an ex-cop and have him brag about covert devices, against a user base of traditionally cop-critical nerds) over the completely messed up response to critics over the conspiracy theory spreading and the "being ex cop is like being a Chinese woman" statement in the end.
    - arp242 3y ago
      You can find complaints like that for any forum that's been around for a while. You should see what some people are saying about HN for example. I've banned people a as moderator, and some of them have gone on to spread complete falsehoods about this. While I'm not saying there is not a problem or that all accounts are incorrect, I find it very hard to trust these accounts from random anonymous internet people. Especially not the type of person who goes off on rants that RaspberryPi is all a scam from Broadcom (or ... something) because that seems exactly the sort of person that should be banned. Hell, one of those links was just a new user mistakenly banned because they looked like a spambot, which was resolved quickly. That sort of thing that happens all the time. Did you even read your own links?
      - esskay 3y ago
        I don't disagree that there are going to be a loud minority who genuinely did deserve a ban, and I did read the links, as I mentioned before though the links were only provided as a 'this is all I can provide short of you trying it yourself' as they tend to delete posts from new users who've been banned for asking a legitimate question. I was in a bit of a lose lose situation by posting.
  - joshxyz 3y ago
    [flagged]

phpisthebest 3y ago

That is the story of just about every technology.... or even community Sad but it remains true, Thing is created > Small but devoted group discovers and popularized thing > Thing raises to mass popularity > The masses what to change the thing to be what they think it "should be" diverging from what the small but devoted group desired or signed on for > Thing becomes unrecognizable to the original group > New thing is created > Small but devoted group.... and the cycle continues So the question is what will replace the Pi for the hacker community, I personally stopped buying Pi's for my personal projects a long time ago, rPI3 was the last one for me. Soo many other manufactures of SBC's out there making better, cheaper boards.

theodric 3y ago
If the Pi gets replaced, Chinese trash that is abandoned in a half-working state after zero updates will replace the Pi.* Or thin clients. Dark days ahead. *like, just random example, the Radxa Rock 3 https://youtu.be/KghZIgkKZcs https://youtu.be/KghZIgkKZcs
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  in this context what makes a difference if it is a Chinese companies abandoning the product vs a British company. Is china the only nations making "trash".... Further your video shows off several replacements with 1 having some kind of incompatibility with some carrier boards... Personally I have never been a fan of the Compute Module form factor anyway.. I prefer the full SBC boards. I think the Compute Module form factor lends itself to more complexity and issues. The SBC Market is huge now, and sure you can point to market failures, companies that dont survive, products that get abandoned every market will have those, and I see that as a GOOD THING. not a bad thing. That is capitalism, which I love, at work.
  - theodric 3y ago
    The British company hasn't abandoned anything. The Raspberry Pi 1 still has full, modern, feature-parity support in Raspberry Pi OS, eleven years after launch. But fine-- in my trash bin you'll find a Cubietruck, an Asus Tinkerboard, a MangoPi MQ-Pro, and several other Chinese SoC compute sticks. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me 5 times, shame on me. All were basically given up on by the original manufacturer, and some had some degree of support through Armbian (albeit with numerous features lost due to being walled off behind some inscrutable binary blob). The current alternative darling of the SBC enthusiast world, the Rockchip RK3588[S], does not have mainline kernel support and depends on a faux-5.x-series frankenkernel provided by Rockchip. Mainline support has been coming Real Soon Now for at least a year, and is in theory making progress, but I can't spend promises at the supermarket. If capitalism works by selling people a piece of shit that barely does what it's supposed to do at launch, doesn't have mainline support, and is consigned to the dustbin after a single dev cycle or two because the manufacturer has moved on to the next piece of shit they will sell to the next mark and then abandon shortly thereafter, then I guess I'm anti-capitalism now. They tell me it used to be about making money by selling a decent product, rather than selling obsolescence-at-launch, thereby scamming people by design. I don't need that kind of capitalism, but there's a lot of it coming out of China these days.

ben_w 3y ago

> For a proof of concept, pop onto their forums, create an account and make a post asking how to do something fairly basic, see how quickly you get yelled at and banned for life. This doesn't need the moderators to be secretly part of some plan to make money. I stopped posting questions on physics stack exchange years ago because what I was curious about vastly exceeded my ability to phrase those questions in a way that didn't sound like a crank, let alone be coherent, precise, and meaningful within the language of physics. Basically, I was writing like ChatGPT years before it existed. In one case, I even managed to get a "no", "yes" (in a comment) and "closed: duplicate" all on the same question. (IIRC, this particular comment was subsequently re-opened because one of the stack exchange moderators is also a HN commenter and noticed last time I said this; I don't blame the moderators for me being an enthusiastic fool).