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I wonder how much of the world's growth is squeezed by these kinds of inefficiencies. Property speculation keeps prices high, and people paying off mortgages i

I wonder how much of the world's growth is squeezed by these kinds of inefficiencies. Property speculation keeps prices high, and people paying off mortgages in dead-end jobs. Education costs force parents into difficult decisions to move out of HCOL areas where they likely have higher-value jobs. Energy and Water costs spike while providing no societal benefit. The West is obsessed with keeping these in place, the rising East seems better placed to change economic inefficiencies. Not sure how it'll play out but I feel like Western society is being pillaged by the PE crowd who can take advantage of the above.

MiguelX413 3y ago
What does PE mean?
- Kbelicius 3y ago
  Probably Price-earning ratio (share price/earning per share)
- SideQuark 3y ago
  Private Equity
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> the rising East seems better placed to change economic inefficiencies lol wut? china changing ineffeiciencies? this must be winnie the poo propaganda. china is corrupt as all hell and much of their building material is of dubious and shady quality. japan and korea are stagnating, and much of SEA is still struggling to modernize and combat their own structural inefficiencies. PE is a cancer, but I'd be curious to know how much of a stake foreign firms have in those orgs.
- ilikerashers 3y ago
  You've got to admit, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Eastern countries with more direct government intervention, strong-arm leaders like Modi, Winnie the poo vs waning Western powers. China didn't bail out its property gamblers, the West bailed out its banking gamblers. The West excels at high-level corruption. It's not bribing an official down a back alley, it's done Manhattan high rises and Mayfair team rooms. Both are indefensible but as bad as each other.
  - corimaith 3y ago
    Depends if you think bailing out the banks was the wrong choice overall. The last time the Great Depression happened we got a world war out of it. It's true that perverse incentives were created out of that, but I would ask if the financial industry is still making these mistakes like NINJA loans. Considering how we just got out of inflation without a recession, the US economy seems pretty structurally sound today.
    - ilikerashers 3y ago
      Might be true, might not. Checkout out this podcast if you get a chance: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/brevan-howard-s-jason-cummins-on-the-current-macro-outlook?srnd=oddlots https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/brevan-ho... Not sure we can draw a line under anything yet and there is still lots of potential for economic instability out there.
throwaway4aday 3y ago
How is the East better positioned when this article is about a massive failure due to property speculation? It just took a different and exaggerated form in China due to the rightly perceived shakiness of Chinese stocks and the limitations on land and property ownership. If this development cements in the minds of the Chinese populace that buying an extra apartment as an investment is no longer a safe place to store their money then who knows what's going to happen next. If you can't keep your money in stocks and you can't keep it in real estate then how do you invest for your future? This is an even more pressing question due to their rapidly aging populace with the prospect of little to no support from their children and non-existent grand-children. The real-estate market in the West may be bonkers but at least someone in their prime earning years can invest in stocks if they can't purchase a home. That has its own risks but with a little knowledge you can mitigate them and with patience you can wait them out and even benefit from them.
- ilikerashers 3y ago
  I don't think that the Chinese are forced to buy property because of the perceived shakiness of the stock market. Rather it's a cultural norm that's embedded itself in their psyche. Also, I disagree that using houses as your store of wealth to fund healthcare is a sane policy. People should be paid for work.
  - throwaway4aday 3y ago
    They're not compelled to but they don't want to invest in stocks due to bad experiences in the past. Now there is a bad experience with investing in real estate. You have to store wealth somewhere otherwise you'll constantly be losing wealth. Ideally, one could simply bank their savings without it losing value while also investing in a variety of other assets rather than putting everything into stocks or real estate but that's not the world we live in at the moment. If you believe people should be paid for their work then you should also believe that the money they are paid for their work should not be bled away from them.

MiguelX413 3y ago

What does PE mean?

Kbelicius 3y ago
Probably Price-earning ratio (share price/earning per share)
SideQuark 3y ago
Private Equity

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> the rising East seems better placed to change economic inefficiencies lol wut? china changing ineffeiciencies? this must be winnie the poo propaganda. china is corrupt as all hell and much of their building material is of dubious and shady quality. japan and korea are stagnating, and much of SEA is still struggling to modernize and combat their own structural inefficiencies. PE is a cancer, but I'd be curious to know how much of a stake foreign firms have in those orgs.

ilikerashers 3y ago
You've got to admit, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Eastern countries with more direct government intervention, strong-arm leaders like Modi, Winnie the poo vs waning Western powers. China didn't bail out its property gamblers, the West bailed out its banking gamblers. The West excels at high-level corruption. It's not bribing an official down a back alley, it's done Manhattan high rises and Mayfair team rooms. Both are indefensible but as bad as each other.
- corimaith 3y ago
  Depends if you think bailing out the banks was the wrong choice overall. The last time the Great Depression happened we got a world war out of it. It's true that perverse incentives were created out of that, but I would ask if the financial industry is still making these mistakes like NINJA loans. Considering how we just got out of inflation without a recession, the US economy seems pretty structurally sound today.
  - ilikerashers 3y ago
    Might be true, might not. Checkout out this podcast if you get a chance: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/brevan-howard-s-jason-cummins-on-the-current-macro-outlook?srnd=oddlots https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/brevan-ho... Not sure we can draw a line under anything yet and there is still lots of potential for economic instability out there.

throwaway4aday 3y ago

How is the East better positioned when this article is about a massive failure due to property speculation? It just took a different and exaggerated form in China due to the rightly perceived shakiness of Chinese stocks and the limitations on land and property ownership. If this development cements in the minds of the Chinese populace that buying an extra apartment as an investment is no longer a safe place to store their money then who knows what's going to happen next. If you can't keep your money in stocks and you can't keep it in real estate then how do you invest for your future? This is an even more pressing question due to their rapidly aging populace with the prospect of little to no support from their children and non-existent grand-children. The real-estate market in the West may be bonkers but at least someone in their prime earning years can invest in stocks if they can't purchase a home. That has its own risks but with a little knowledge you can mitigate them and with patience you can wait them out and even benefit from them.

ilikerashers 3y ago
I don't think that the Chinese are forced to buy property because of the perceived shakiness of the stock market. Rather it's a cultural norm that's embedded itself in their psyche. Also, I disagree that using houses as your store of wealth to fund healthcare is a sane policy. People should be paid for work.
- throwaway4aday 3y ago
  They're not compelled to but they don't want to invest in stocks due to bad experiences in the past. Now there is a bad experience with investing in real estate. You have to store wealth somewhere otherwise you'll constantly be losing wealth. Ideally, one could simply bank their savings without it losing value while also investing in a variety of other assets rather than putting everything into stocks or real estate but that's not the world we live in at the moment. If you believe people should be paid for their work then you should also believe that the money they are paid for their work should not be bled away from them.