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Wasn't it supposed to be a charity/non profit foundation? Isn't an IPO kinda the opposite of that? Or is is the fashionable thing these days to claim to be no

Wasn't it supposed to be a charity/non profit foundation? Isn't an IPO kinda the opposite of that? Or is is the fashionable thing these days to claim to be non-profit when you're young and looking for grassroots support, only to transform when there is money to be made?

techdragon 3y ago
Yeah... I have major concerns about how significantly this would impact their ostensible goals. What guarantee is there that the newly publicly listed company won't be pressured by stockholders to improve the profit margins by driving up prices and reducing product quality on both the hardware and software fronts.
- elashri 3y ago
  > What guarantee is there that the newly publicly listed company won't be pressured by stockholders to improve the profit margins by driving up prices and reducing product quality on both the hardware and software fronts. Isn't that what a public typical company do these days anyway? Or is there a sarcasm tone I am missing somehow?
  - techdragon 3y ago
    That’s my point. They are ostensibly setup to primarily be a charity even if there’s a commercial organisation buried in the business structure (like Mozilla and a few other corps) … while the charity is in control the mission is simple, the charity is the owner and the owners of a company make the decisions. Shifting to publicly listed means the owners are now the shareholders, it’s rare that public shareholders have zero board of directors representation, which is why I fear this is basically going to kill everything the Raspberry Pi Foundation have worked to build … the only question in my mind is how fast this kills it, I just can’t see how this won’t result in shareholders pressuring the company into compromising in the name of raw profit or whatever else is necessary for them to raise the stock price so the investors can get some profit.
    - graemep 3y ago
      It depends a lot on how they do it. How large a shareholding the non-profit retains, whether it retains controls by other means such as a golden share etc.
- Astraco 3y ago
  Don't worry about prices going up and reducing quality, that have been happening since RPi 4
  - HankB99 3y ago
    I've been having issues with their S/W for a while now. * Couldn't select a current version of the OS to install on a Pi Zero. * Can't install the current version on an SSD that will run on a Pi 4B. An SSD install works. The same install on an SD card does work. * An install that runs on a Pi 5 won't run on a Pi 4B. I asked about the first on their forum and my post was deleted before anyone could answer. No reason was given and I could find no where to ask. The post was in no way critical or inflammatory. They just don't want to discuss problems with their stuff. There were a lot of changes in how the imager works and what happens on first boot and I suspect they are still catching up with related bugs.
- mrmanner 3y ago
  That could end up not too bad actually - the for-profit company becomes hugely profitable, the foundation uses the dividends to further their goals of affordable computer education etc. etc.
swampthinker 3y ago
Depends on the structure - Public OpCo controlled by non-profit worked out well for Novo Nordisk. Get the resources needed from the public markets, but still maintain the mission-driven control and focus on diabetes.
- osmano807 3y ago
  As if Saxenda/Victoza or Ozempic didn't cost nearly one minimum wage per month. At least they're focusing on diabetes I guess.
KaiserPro 3y ago
from memory there are three parts of what we think as Pi 1) the foundation, that does all the outreach, education and magazines 2) The commercial part (the actually makes the pis) 3) R&D but it might be only two. Either way I assume only the commercial part will float, leaving the foundation as the majority shareholder. It has the advantage of giving the foundation a couple of hundred million, which should allow it to continue to do great things. (if you think about computer/electronics education, its basically pi and scratch. Arduino has kinda dropped the ball.)
- foofie 3y ago
  > 1) the foundation, that does all the outreach, education and magazines Doesn't that count as marketing?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Don't forget the Micro:bit and I'm not convinced "Arduino has kinda dropped the ball", they are doing just fine in the marketplace and the gear has come down in price to where $4 gets you a working microcontroller (and $5 for the Raspi 2040 pico). What you can get under $10 these days is mindblowing and if all Arduino ever did was make their IDE which ties 100's of different boards together under a common development experience then that would be enough for me.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    > I'm not convinced "Arduino has kinda dropped the ball" While Arduino is strong in many regards and was a big improvement on the status quo when it came out in ~2005, they weren't very fast to respond to the rise of the esp8266 and super-low-cost boards made in China. For a long time their cheapest product was the Uno R3 (with a 16 MHz 8-bit ATmega328) for about $25 while you could buy a Wemos D1 mini (with a 160 MHz 32-bit esp8266) for $2 - or an Uno clone on aliexpress for $3. Arduino have updated their product line since then (the Uno R4 Minima offers a 48MHz 32-bit RA4M1 for $19) and it's understandable they wanted to retain compatibility with their 5v shield ecosystem. But they were definitely slow to respond to a changing market.
plutokras 3y ago
And now the company will serve the interest of the shareholders above all else. The number gotta go up each quarter.
larschdk 3y ago
They have already taken outside investments in previous rounds. This is the Raspberry Pi Ltd (formerly Raspberry Pi Trading Ltd). The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still a charity.
esskay 3y ago
The non-profit arm is a tiny insignificant part of their business now. They stopped being education and charity focused during covid and are only really interested in their B2B customers these days.
- schappim 3y ago
  You've got it the wrong way around. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a shareholder in Raspberry Pi Ltd, not vice versa. It benefits from the profits generated by the commercial arm. The commercial arm was established on 10 September 2012 [1]. [1] https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08207441 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...
  - palata 3y ago
    > You've got it the wrong way around. I don't see how it is the wrong way around: what you are saying is that they are a for-profit, and depending on how much profit they make with their business, the foundation gets more money to "play with", right?
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      The commercial entity, just like every other commercial company that has stock has stockholders. That happens to be - in part - the foundation. If there are profits then the stockholders, including the foundation, get a pro-rata payout named a dividend. But it can take a long time to make that scheme work at a level where the foundation can do what it would like to do so this IPO kind of gets a head start on those dividends, by selling some of the stock rather than to make a profit and wait they get some of that cash today, with the downside of being required to live in a glass house from now on and having somewhat reduced future dividends (assuming there are any).
      - hasty_pudding 3y ago
        Lotta words for "yes"
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
After Raspberry Pi, OpenAI and Processing Foundation I'll never trust a "non-profit" again
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  What happened to the Processing Foundation?
  - ebcode 3y ago
    See https://discourse.processing.org/t/ben-fry-resigning-from-the-processing-foundation/42888/17 https://discourse.processing.org/t/ben-fry-resigning-from-th...
- gregors 3y ago
  "non-profit" is a tax status, that's all
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Right, I wish people would remember that. Sure, non-profit is usually a good tax status for charities and other public-benefit type organizations. But that doesn't mean all non-profits are charities. Regardless, the Raspberry Pi for-profit arm has existed for over a decade now; the only news is that it wants to IPO.
    - klelatti 3y ago
      The RPi foundation is a charity.
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> Wasn't it supposed to be a charity/non profit foundation? You answered your question: it was. :-(
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

techdragon 3y ago

Yeah... I have major concerns about how significantly this would impact their ostensible goals. What guarantee is there that the newly publicly listed company won't be pressured by stockholders to improve the profit margins by driving up prices and reducing product quality on both the hardware and software fronts.

elashri 3y ago
> What guarantee is there that the newly publicly listed company won't be pressured by stockholders to improve the profit margins by driving up prices and reducing product quality on both the hardware and software fronts. Isn't that what a public typical company do these days anyway? Or is there a sarcasm tone I am missing somehow?
- techdragon 3y ago
  That’s my point. They are ostensibly setup to primarily be a charity even if there’s a commercial organisation buried in the business structure (like Mozilla and a few other corps) … while the charity is in control the mission is simple, the charity is the owner and the owners of a company make the decisions. Shifting to publicly listed means the owners are now the shareholders, it’s rare that public shareholders have zero board of directors representation, which is why I fear this is basically going to kill everything the Raspberry Pi Foundation have worked to build … the only question in my mind is how fast this kills it, I just can’t see how this won’t result in shareholders pressuring the company into compromising in the name of raw profit or whatever else is necessary for them to raise the stock price so the investors can get some profit.
  - graemep 3y ago
    It depends a lot on how they do it. How large a shareholding the non-profit retains, whether it retains controls by other means such as a golden share etc.
Astraco 3y ago
Don't worry about prices going up and reducing quality, that have been happening since RPi 4
- HankB99 3y ago
  I've been having issues with their S/W for a while now. * Couldn't select a current version of the OS to install on a Pi Zero. * Can't install the current version on an SSD that will run on a Pi 4B. An SSD install works. The same install on an SD card does work. * An install that runs on a Pi 5 won't run on a Pi 4B. I asked about the first on their forum and my post was deleted before anyone could answer. No reason was given and I could find no where to ask. The post was in no way critical or inflammatory. They just don't want to discuss problems with their stuff. There were a lot of changes in how the imager works and what happens on first boot and I suspect they are still catching up with related bugs.
mrmanner 3y ago
That could end up not too bad actually - the for-profit company becomes hugely profitable, the foundation uses the dividends to further their goals of affordable computer education etc. etc.

swampthinker 3y ago

Depends on the structure - Public OpCo controlled by non-profit worked out well for Novo Nordisk. Get the resources needed from the public markets, but still maintain the mission-driven control and focus on diabetes.

osmano807 3y ago
As if Saxenda/Victoza or Ozempic didn't cost nearly one minimum wage per month. At least they're focusing on diabetes I guess.

KaiserPro 3y ago

from memory there are three parts of what we think as Pi 1) the foundation, that does all the outreach, education and magazines 2) The commercial part (the actually makes the pis) 3) R&D but it might be only two. Either way I assume only the commercial part will float, leaving the foundation as the majority shareholder. It has the advantage of giving the foundation a couple of hundred million, which should allow it to continue to do great things. (if you think about computer/electronics education, its basically pi and scratch. Arduino has kinda dropped the ball.)

foofie 3y ago
> 1) the foundation, that does all the outreach, education and magazines Doesn't that count as marketing?
jacquesm 3y ago
Don't forget the Micro:bit and I'm not convinced "Arduino has kinda dropped the ball", they are doing just fine in the marketplace and the gear has come down in price to where $4 gets you a working microcontroller (and $5 for the Raspi 2040 pico). What you can get under $10 these days is mindblowing and if all Arduino ever did was make their IDE which ties 100's of different boards together under a common development experience then that would be enough for me.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > I'm not convinced "Arduino has kinda dropped the ball" While Arduino is strong in many regards and was a big improvement on the status quo when it came out in ~2005, they weren't very fast to respond to the rise of the esp8266 and super-low-cost boards made in China. For a long time their cheapest product was the Uno R3 (with a 16 MHz 8-bit ATmega328) for about $25 while you could buy a Wemos D1 mini (with a 160 MHz 32-bit esp8266) for $2 - or an Uno clone on aliexpress for $3. Arduino have updated their product line since then (the Uno R4 Minima offers a 48MHz 32-bit RA4M1 for $19) and it's understandable they wanted to retain compatibility with their 5v shield ecosystem. But they were definitely slow to respond to a changing market.

plutokras 3y ago

And now the company will serve the interest of the shareholders above all else. The number gotta go up each quarter.

larschdk 3y ago

They have already taken outside investments in previous rounds. This is the Raspberry Pi Ltd (formerly Raspberry Pi Trading Ltd). The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still a charity.

esskay 3y ago

The non-profit arm is a tiny insignificant part of their business now. They stopped being education and charity focused during covid and are only really interested in their B2B customers these days.

schappim 3y ago
You've got it the wrong way around. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a shareholder in Raspberry Pi Ltd, not vice versa. It benefits from the profits generated by the commercial arm. The commercial arm was established on 10 September 2012 [1]. [1] https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08207441 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...
- palata 3y ago
  > You've got it the wrong way around. I don't see how it is the wrong way around: what you are saying is that they are a for-profit, and depending on how much profit they make with their business, the foundation gets more money to "play with", right?
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    The commercial entity, just like every other commercial company that has stock has stockholders. That happens to be - in part - the foundation. If there are profits then the stockholders, including the foundation, get a pro-rata payout named a dividend. But it can take a long time to make that scheme work at a level where the foundation can do what it would like to do so this IPO kind of gets a head start on those dividends, by selling some of the stock rather than to make a profit and wait they get some of that cash today, with the downside of being required to live in a glass house from now on and having somewhat reduced future dividends (assuming there are any).
    - hasty_pudding 3y ago
      Lotta words for "yes"

whywhywhywhy 3y ago

After Raspberry Pi, OpenAI and Processing Foundation I'll never trust a "non-profit" again

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
What happened to the Processing Foundation?
- ebcode 3y ago
  See https://discourse.processing.org/t/ben-fry-resigning-from-the-processing-foundation/42888/17 https://discourse.processing.org/t/ben-fry-resigning-from-th...
gregors 3y ago
"non-profit" is a tax status, that's all
- kelnos 3y ago
  Right, I wish people would remember that. Sure, non-profit is usually a good tax status for charities and other public-benefit type organizations. But that doesn't mean all non-profits are charities. Regardless, the Raspberry Pi for-profit arm has existed for over a decade now; the only news is that it wants to IPO.
  - klelatti 3y ago
    The RPi foundation is a charity.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> Wasn't it supposed to be a charity/non profit foundation? You answered your question: it was. :-(

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]