4 ms·

I don't have a problem against this if certain checks are in place, and I think it should be expanded. Society shouldn't pay twice for a crime against their ci

I don't have a problem against this if certain checks are in place, and I think it should be expanded. Society shouldn't pay twice for a crime against their citizens. Criminals should be punished, but society should profit from them while imprisoned, not pay even more to have them do time in prison. The only reasons I see for a prisoner not to work full time while incarcerated, are: - They have some illness or impairment. - They want to study (and get good grades) while in prison to change their criminal lives.

tetris11 3y ago
Hell, I have no problem with Capitalism if certain checks are in place, but we all know how perverse incentives have a way of occluding those checks over time.
coldtea 3y ago
Summed the mentality that gives the US the worst crime and recidivism rates in the western world perfectly!
PostOnce 3y ago
We've wrongfully imprisoned and executed plenty of innocent men. Another case of freeing a man after 48 years wrongfully jailed just weeks ago https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67782907 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67782907 It's not something we used to do, it's something we still do. What checks take care of this?
nilsherzig 3y ago
But if the prisons makes a profit for every inmate, they might no longer be interested in releasing / reintegrating them back into society, right? And (correct me if I'm wrong) there already are some cases in which people got prison sentences to make somebody else a profit.
- PostOnce 3y ago
  Indeed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
  - nilsherzig 3y ago
    Oh, that's incredibly sad :( and to think that there are probably other similar cases still going on is horrifying Btw, looks like the USA is already locking up a lot more people than we (Germany) are (1,23 × 1000000) / (330 × 1000000) ≈ 0,003727272727 (65 × 1000) / (83 × 1000000) ≈ 0,0007831325301 So about 4,7 Times as many people. Seems excessive
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    It's pretty sad when you really think about it and exposes how racist our prison system tends to be. You've got a white judge sent to a bougie prison despite having ruined the lives of thousands of kids. Then you have a mixture of black and poor people sent to prison for shoplifting or getting caught with weed being forced into chain gangs and dangerous labor for pennies.
holoduke 3y ago
If you look at the American justice system you will probably agree that the entire system is one big fu. Thats because focus is on punishment and not in the reintegration back into society. Some northern European countries do focus on this. Result is a much better system. There are literally millions of studies that provides evidence. Let people work in poor working conditions wont really help making them better people. It only helps filling the pockets of business owners who don't give a damn about society.
GuB-42 3y ago
I believe that one should respect the prisoners work. And part of that respect means a decent pay. In fact, I think prison work should be held to the same as regular work, like minimum wage, employee protection, etc... Work is good, that's the best thing you can do to criminals. It provides guidance, a meaning in life, and revenue. If we can get prisoners to work a honest job after they leave prison, we win. We have turned a criminal into a productive member of society. And I don't think that treating prisoners as slaves rather than as actual workers is the way to achieve that. If you want society to make profit of convicts, that's what fines are for, not prison. You can have both, and prison work, like out-of-prison work can be used to pay that fine, and also damage to the victims. But for that, work has to be decently paid. At less than $1/hour, there is not much to repay the victims.
- wtcactus 3y ago
  They cost a lot more that hey bring in. So, no, they should be expected to receive anything, up to the point where they pay all their incarceration expenses with that salary.
  - felsokning 3y ago
    > They cost a lot more that hey bring in... Only because the profit margin of this nigh-free labor is literally filling the coffers of 'x' business. If you remove the "for-profit" from the scenario, you'd eventually get your costs back, no; at far faster rate, even?

tetris11 3y ago

Hell, I have no problem with Capitalism if certain checks are in place, but we all know how perverse incentives have a way of occluding those checks over time.

coldtea 3y ago

Summed the mentality that gives the US the worst crime and recidivism rates in the western world perfectly!

PostOnce 3y ago

We've wrongfully imprisoned and executed plenty of innocent men. Another case of freeing a man after 48 years wrongfully jailed just weeks ago https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67782907 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67782907 It's not something we used to do, it's something we still do. What checks take care of this?

nilsherzig 3y ago

But if the prisons makes a profit for every inmate, they might no longer be interested in releasing / reintegrating them back into society, right? And (correct me if I'm wrong) there already are some cases in which people got prison sentences to make somebody else a profit.

PostOnce 3y ago
Indeed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
- nilsherzig 3y ago
  Oh, that's incredibly sad :( and to think that there are probably other similar cases still going on is horrifying Btw, looks like the USA is already locking up a lot more people than we (Germany) are (1,23 × 1000000) / (330 × 1000000) ≈ 0,003727272727 (65 × 1000) / (83 × 1000000) ≈ 0,0007831325301 So about 4,7 Times as many people. Seems excessive
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  It's pretty sad when you really think about it and exposes how racist our prison system tends to be. You've got a white judge sent to a bougie prison despite having ruined the lives of thousands of kids. Then you have a mixture of black and poor people sent to prison for shoplifting or getting caught with weed being forced into chain gangs and dangerous labor for pennies.

holoduke 3y ago

If you look at the American justice system you will probably agree that the entire system is one big fu. Thats because focus is on punishment and not in the reintegration back into society. Some northern European countries do focus on this. Result is a much better system. There are literally millions of studies that provides evidence. Let people work in poor working conditions wont really help making them better people. It only helps filling the pockets of business owners who don't give a damn about society.

GuB-42 3y ago

I believe that one should respect the prisoners work. And part of that respect means a decent pay. In fact, I think prison work should be held to the same as regular work, like minimum wage, employee protection, etc... Work is good, that's the best thing you can do to criminals. It provides guidance, a meaning in life, and revenue. If we can get prisoners to work a honest job after they leave prison, we win. We have turned a criminal into a productive member of society. And I don't think that treating prisoners as slaves rather than as actual workers is the way to achieve that. If you want society to make profit of convicts, that's what fines are for, not prison. You can have both, and prison work, like out-of-prison work can be used to pay that fine, and also damage to the victims. But for that, work has to be decently paid. At less than $1/hour, there is not much to repay the victims.

wtcactus 3y ago
They cost a lot more that hey bring in. So, no, they should be expected to receive anything, up to the point where they pay all their incarceration expenses with that salary.
- felsokning 3y ago
  > They cost a lot more that hey bring in... Only because the profit margin of this nigh-free labor is literally filling the coffers of 'x' business. If you remove the "for-profit" from the scenario, you'd eventually get your costs back, no; at far faster rate, even?