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> Just because a GPU includes a 3D graphics pipeline that doesn't mean that everything has to go through it. That’s how modern Windows does that in practice. E

> Just because a GPU includes a 3D graphics pipeline that doesn't mean that everything has to go through it. That’s how modern Windows does that in practice. Everything does go through the 3D graphics pipeline, and starting from Win8 it’s impossible to disable. I’m not even sure modern PC hardware supports these hardware layers, except for one small extra layer for hardware mouse cursor. On my computer D3DCAPS_OVERLAY and DDCAPS_OVERLAY flags are unset. The driver reports to the OS the hardware doesn’t support any hardware overlay surfaces.

charcircuit 3y ago
>I'm not even sure modern PC hardware supports these hardware layers Yes, they do. I'm guessing you may be using an older nvidia gpu. In the case no overlay is available the video can become fullscreen and to take the only layer from dwm. For pcs the benefit is less about performance / power and more about lower latency.
- Const-me 3y ago
  > Yes, they do. Why are you so certain? > you may be using an older nvidia gpu. Tested AMD Vega 7 inside Ryzen 5 5600U, and nVidia 1080Ti — dxcapsviewer.exe shows the same result, no overlays are supported. Only the D3DCURSORCAPS_COLOR hardware cursor is there. > the video can become fullscreen and to take the only layer from dwm Indeed, exclusive D3D full-screen mode allows to bypass dwm.exe compositor, even on modern Windows. But I don’t think it’s evidence of any hardware composition being used.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >Why are you so certain? Look at documentation from GPU manufacturers, look at GPUs that support multiplane overlay on windows. >But I don’t think it’s evidence of any hardware composition being used. It's not, but it doesn't require using 3D graphics to put the texture on the display.
    - Const-me 3y ago
      > GPUs that support multiplane overlay on windows According to Microsoft, MPO is an optional feature: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/multiplane-overlay-hardware-requirements https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... According to random people on the internets, the feature is broken for both nVidia and AMD: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/yr5dda/can_someone_explain_to_me_what_mpo_does/ivyj8bl/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/yr5dda/can_someone... nVidia agrees and recommends disabling MPO with a registry setting: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5157/~/after-updating-to-nvidia-game-ready-driver-461.09-or-newer%2C-some-desktop-apps https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5157/~/a... > it doesn't require using 3D graphics to put the texture on the display In practice, 3D graphics is the best way to put pixels on the display. At this point, I believe other ways are remnants of the old GPUs which had 2D blitting hardware.

charcircuit 3y ago

>I'm not even sure modern PC hardware supports these hardware layers Yes, they do. I'm guessing you may be using an older nvidia gpu. In the case no overlay is available the video can become fullscreen and to take the only layer from dwm. For pcs the benefit is less about performance / power and more about lower latency.

Const-me 3y ago
> Yes, they do. Why are you so certain? > you may be using an older nvidia gpu. Tested AMD Vega 7 inside Ryzen 5 5600U, and nVidia 1080Ti — dxcapsviewer.exe shows the same result, no overlays are supported. Only the D3DCURSORCAPS_COLOR hardware cursor is there. > the video can become fullscreen and to take the only layer from dwm Indeed, exclusive D3D full-screen mode allows to bypass dwm.exe compositor, even on modern Windows. But I don’t think it’s evidence of any hardware composition being used.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  >Why are you so certain? Look at documentation from GPU manufacturers, look at GPUs that support multiplane overlay on windows. >But I don’t think it’s evidence of any hardware composition being used. It's not, but it doesn't require using 3D graphics to put the texture on the display.
  - Const-me 3y ago
    > GPUs that support multiplane overlay on windows According to Microsoft, MPO is an optional feature: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/multiplane-overlay-hardware-requirements https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... According to random people on the internets, the feature is broken for both nVidia and AMD: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/yr5dda/can_someone_explain_to_me_what_mpo_does/ivyj8bl/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/yr5dda/can_someone... nVidia agrees and recommends disabling MPO with a registry setting: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5157/~/after-updating-to-nvidia-game-ready-driver-461.09-or-newer%2C-some-desktop-apps https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5157/~/a... > it doesn't require using 3D graphics to put the texture on the display In practice, 3D graphics is the best way to put pixels on the display. At this point, I believe other ways are remnants of the old GPUs which had 2D blitting hardware.