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Aren't stronger labor union protections supposed to lead to higher wages? How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages?

by acchow 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Aren't stronger labor union protections supposed to lead to higher wages? Only for those at the lower end, usually at the expense of growth and opportunities for those at the higher end, but since those are fewer in number their votes are less important. >How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages? Because investors there don't have as much money, and those who do don't risk it starting tech companies. And also because Europe is not a single country with one law and one language, but 27+ with different laws and different languages, means scaling a business beyond the original country is difficult and expensive. It's the US who's the exception in tech success, not EU for failing to match it.
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages? The leverage a company has and the leverage a union has both come from the same place: A lack of alternatives. But then that's the problem. If you have a competitive industry, the union can't demand much because the company's margins will be slim and they won't be able to give the union much without raising prices, losing customers to competitors and going out of business. This is actually fine because in that case workers still get the money in the form of lower consumer prices, but then it's not the union which is getting you the benefit. Conversely, if the industry isn't competitive then the company will be a huge conglomerate with a lot of leverage against workers/consumers. They'll be big enough to exert political influence in the government and also big enough for the company's union to become infested with politics. In particular, the union knows where its leverage comes from, and it's workers with skills in high demand, so any union that doesn't keep them happy and keep them from moving to another company/industry is going to have to contend with a pissed off conglomerate with a lot of political influence. So the money goes to the people with high demand skills (or political connections) and the rank and file still get the scraps, but now it's even worse because lack of competition and high levels of organizational inefficiency means high prices when they go to buy things.
danielscrubs 3y ago
I haven’t seen any managers that worked themselves up from the bottom, in eu. A manager starts with an economic background and step in from the side. That coupled with free university means that programmers is not something that you look up too.

Aren't stronger labor union protections supposed to lead to higher wages? How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages?

by acchow 3y ago

Aren't stronger labor union protections supposed to lead to higher wages? How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages?

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Aren't stronger labor union protections supposed to lead to higher wages? Only for those at the lower end, usually at the expense of growth and opportunities for those at the higher end, but since those are fewer in number their votes are less important. >How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages? Because investors there don't have as much money, and those who do don't risk it starting tech companies. And also because Europe is not a single country with one law and one language, but 27+ with different laws and different languages, means scaling a business beyond the original country is difficult and expensive. It's the US who's the exception in tech success, not EU for failing to match it.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

> How is it that European tech workers can't bargain for higher wages? The leverage a company has and the leverage a union has both come from the same place: A lack of alternatives. But then that's the problem. If you have a competitive industry, the union can't demand much because the company's margins will be slim and they won't be able to give the union much without raising prices, losing customers to competitors and going out of business. This is actually fine because in that case workers still get the money in the form of lower consumer prices, but then it's not the union which is getting you the benefit. Conversely, if the industry isn't competitive then the company will be a huge conglomerate with a lot of leverage against workers/consumers. They'll be big enough to exert political influence in the government and also big enough for the company's union to become infested with politics. In particular, the union knows where its leverage comes from, and it's workers with skills in high demand, so any union that doesn't keep them happy and keep them from moving to another company/industry is going to have to contend with a pissed off conglomerate with a lot of political influence. So the money goes to the people with high demand skills (or political connections) and the rank and file still get the scraps, but now it's even worse because lack of competition and high levels of organizational inefficiency means high prices when they go to buy things.

danielscrubs 3y ago

I haven’t seen any managers that worked themselves up from the bottom, in eu. A manager starts with an economic background and step in from the side. That coupled with free university means that programmers is not something that you look up too.