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I think the Amiga is such a nice candidate for an autarkic computer design. Simple enough to not be completely unrealistic, interesting enough to be worth it, a

I think the Amiga is such a nice candidate for an autarkic computer design. Simple enough to not be completely unrealistic, interesting enough to be worth it, and by now, insanely well documented.

tibbydudeza 3y ago
The Raspberry Pi fits the bill better - it will run some form of desktop Linux for a long time into the future and it is such a simple cheap design - just 4 IC's with some bits. The same can't be said of the A1200 - flaky old circuitry that you cannot source new parts for except cannibalize donor boards - and it is huge and slowww.
- wokkel 3y ago
  The pi is largely undocumented and otherwise proprietary. It's owned by broadcom who are otherwise known for putting everything behind an nda. No, the pi is a lot, but it's not a platform i would bet on to be available in 50 years.
  - tibbydudeza 3y ago
    Yes the Amiga OCS can be implemented on a FPGA but nobody is running the 68K architecture (Paula/Agnus/Denise ain't nothing special) anymore except for ColdFire variants still used in the automotive world and in laser printers. ARM is rather ubiquitous at this stage considering the number of implementations in the world since the first Android phones went on sale. It will be around for far longer than the 68K.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  > such a simple cheap design - just 4 IC's Which are absurdly complicated and proprietary SOCs
- ptek 3y ago
  Still waiting for Kick 3.1 to be ported to Raspberry Pi or Nextstep 3.3/OpenStep 4.2 Kick 3.1 (Not the full size AROS)
snakeyjake 3y ago
No system with the number of custom ICs found in the Amiga is a self-sufficient design. The ultimate self-sufficient design is the IBM PC. Today, right now, you can find a compatible version of every single component used to manufacture the original IBM PC sitting on a shelf somewhere for sale. Try replacing a Gail, Paula, Alice, or Lisa that's gone bad in an A1200.
- timbit42 3y ago
  What makes the design of the IBM PC ultimately self-sufficient relative to other early designs like the Apple II, MITS Altair 8800, TRS-80, etc?
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    It was mostly off the shelf components, except for the BIOS, hence why they were so easy to clone after Compaq's sucessful reverse engineeering of it. IBM tried to take over its lost property with the PS/2 MCA architecture, but it was largely ignored.
    - timbit42 3y ago
      Yes, but the ones I mentioned, and many others, were also all off the shelf components. Why was the IBM PC "ultimate" relative to them?
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Have an upvote, but I didn't mean what old chips you can get off the shelf right now. I meant what you could build with a budget and a chip factory. There are so many Verilog and FPGA implementations of Amigas to start from. (Related note: the Draco "Amiga compatible" ran AmigaOS and "well behaved" programs, even though it didn't have the custom Amiga chips, just the m68k processor.) The Amiga is in a such a sweet spot, because you can do all "modern" things like web browsing, developing with an IDE, play movies and music etc etc, while still being very simple and easy to understand. IBM PC clones win on the "easy to understand" front but they are clearly from a previous era. Amigas are somewhere in between...

I think the Amiga is such a nice candidate for an autarkic computer design. Simple enough to not be completely unrealistic, interesting enough to be worth it, and by now, insanely well documented.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

The Raspberry Pi fits the bill better - it will run some form of desktop Linux for a long time into the future and it is such a simple cheap design - just 4 IC's with some bits. The same can't be said of the A1200 - flaky old circuitry that you cannot source new parts for except cannibalize donor boards - and it is huge and slowww.

wokkel 3y ago
The pi is largely undocumented and otherwise proprietary. It's owned by broadcom who are otherwise known for putting everything behind an nda. No, the pi is a lot, but it's not a platform i would bet on to be available in 50 years.
- tibbydudeza 3y ago
  Yes the Amiga OCS can be implemented on a FPGA but nobody is running the 68K architecture (Paula/Agnus/Denise ain't nothing special) anymore except for ColdFire variants still used in the automotive world and in laser printers. ARM is rather ubiquitous at this stage considering the number of implementations in the world since the first Android phones went on sale. It will be around for far longer than the 68K.
15457345234 3y ago
> such a simple cheap design - just 4 IC's Which are absurdly complicated and proprietary SOCs
ptek 3y ago
Still waiting for Kick 3.1 to be ported to Raspberry Pi or Nextstep 3.3/OpenStep 4.2 Kick 3.1 (Not the full size AROS)

snakeyjake 3y ago

No system with the number of custom ICs found in the Amiga is a self-sufficient design. The ultimate self-sufficient design is the IBM PC. Today, right now, you can find a compatible version of every single component used to manufacture the original IBM PC sitting on a shelf somewhere for sale. Try replacing a Gail, Paula, Alice, or Lisa that's gone bad in an A1200.

timbit42 3y ago
What makes the design of the IBM PC ultimately self-sufficient relative to other early designs like the Apple II, MITS Altair 8800, TRS-80, etc?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  It was mostly off the shelf components, except for the BIOS, hence why they were so easy to clone after Compaq's sucessful reverse engineeering of it. IBM tried to take over its lost property with the PS/2 MCA architecture, but it was largely ignored.
  - timbit42 3y ago
    Yes, but the ones I mentioned, and many others, were also all off the shelf components. Why was the IBM PC "ultimate" relative to them?
actionfromafar 3y ago
Have an upvote, but I didn't mean what old chips you can get off the shelf right now. I meant what you could build with a budget and a chip factory. There are so many Verilog and FPGA implementations of Amigas to start from. (Related note: the Draco "Amiga compatible" ran AmigaOS and "well behaved" programs, even though it didn't have the custom Amiga chips, just the m68k processor.) The Amiga is in a such a sweet spot, because you can do all "modern" things like web browsing, developing with an IDE, play movies and music etc etc, while still being very simple and easy to understand. IBM PC clones win on the "easy to understand" front but they are clearly from a previous era. Amigas are somewhere in between...