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> Privacy though, is another matter that never gets benchmarked, The newest Roborock vacuums don’t even have cameras. On purpose. Unlike iRobot. So it seems Ch

> Privacy though, is another matter that never gets benchmarked, The newest Roborock vacuums don’t even have cameras. On purpose. Unlike iRobot. So it seems China is actually ahead in privacy. Which is sad.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Privacy is not a cameras or no-cameras dependent binary. You still need to use their apps to control the robots, and the apps send the commands to the robot only through their proprietary clouds instead of directly. You can't tell me with a straight face that means privacy.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  > Privacy is not a cameras or no-cameras dependent binary. If it has no camera and no microphone, the worst case leak is way better than what iRobot has already been caught doing: (The toilette videos) https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-i...
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Sure, but that's like saying being punched in the face is better than being punched in the nuts.
    - marcinzm 3y ago
      You have yet to say why. Making random hyperboles and sounding angry isn't an argument, it's a tantrum.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Just saying one is way worse than the other, even though they're both still bad, what more do you want? It's obvious to everyone.
- marcinzm 3y ago
  > You can't tell me with a straight face that means privacy. Given that I use roughly the same number of cloud and government services as other people, and live in a city, to me this is privacy. Without cameras or microphones it falls within my tolerance for information that third parties know about me given the risk of those third parties abusing that data (either directly or via hackers). Sorry to break the bad news to you but your personal standard for privacy is way out of line with what the vast vast majority of people consider privacy nowadays. Up to you if you want to spend your life living in anger at that or not.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >but your personal standard for privacy is way out of line with what the vast vast majority of people consider privacy nowadays. Up to you if you want to spend your life living in anger at that or not. I'm not living in anger, I'm just not comfy sharing my data with Chinese companies and their random cloud services. I think that applies to most people actually. Yes the ship has long sailed on the online privacy of the Average Joe who's already knees deep in Google, Meta, Tinder, Microsoft, Amazon, etc, but that doesn't mean I should just bend over to more of those from China as well. Privacy is not binary, as in you either have it or you don't, but you can actively control and limit how much you give away once you're educated on the subject and willing to invest a few clicks through cookie banners, ad blockers, etc.
    - marcinzm 3y ago
      Unless China can use it's data on me to perform blackmail directly I could care less. Now the US government or US companies are a different story. They can correlate tons of data, impact life decisions (credit scores, medical coverage, insurance rates, etc.), cause significant impact (suspect in police investigations, tax audits, etc.), go after me for perceived damages (in court or less legally like those ebay executives, etc.), etc. The police of any country put innocent people into jail every single day. Them I'm worried about not some nebulous threat from China.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
ex3ndr 3y ago
No, they have they are just "IR" cameras and they avoid using word "camera", but they are still pretty much the same cameras.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Privacy is not a cameras or no-cameras dependent binary. You still need to use their apps to control the robots, and the apps send the commands to the robot only through their proprietary clouds instead of directly. You can't tell me with a straight face that means privacy.

rightbyte 3y ago
> Privacy is not a cameras or no-cameras dependent binary. If it has no camera and no microphone, the worst case leak is way better than what iRobot has already been caught doing: (The toilette videos) https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-i...
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Sure, but that's like saying being punched in the face is better than being punched in the nuts.
  - marcinzm 3y ago
    You have yet to say why. Making random hyperboles and sounding angry isn't an argument, it's a tantrum.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Just saying one is way worse than the other, even though they're both still bad, what more do you want? It's obvious to everyone.
marcinzm 3y ago
> You can't tell me with a straight face that means privacy. Given that I use roughly the same number of cloud and government services as other people, and live in a city, to me this is privacy. Without cameras or microphones it falls within my tolerance for information that third parties know about me given the risk of those third parties abusing that data (either directly or via hackers). Sorry to break the bad news to you but your personal standard for privacy is way out of line with what the vast vast majority of people consider privacy nowadays. Up to you if you want to spend your life living in anger at that or not.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >but your personal standard for privacy is way out of line with what the vast vast majority of people consider privacy nowadays. Up to you if you want to spend your life living in anger at that or not. I'm not living in anger, I'm just not comfy sharing my data with Chinese companies and their random cloud services. I think that applies to most people actually. Yes the ship has long sailed on the online privacy of the Average Joe who's already knees deep in Google, Meta, Tinder, Microsoft, Amazon, etc, but that doesn't mean I should just bend over to more of those from China as well. Privacy is not binary, as in you either have it or you don't, but you can actively control and limit how much you give away once you're educated on the subject and willing to invest a few clicks through cookie banners, ad blockers, etc.
  - marcinzm 3y ago
    Unless China can use it's data on me to perform blackmail directly I could care less. Now the US government or US companies are a different story. They can correlate tons of data, impact life decisions (credit scores, medical coverage, insurance rates, etc.), cause significant impact (suspect in police investigations, tax audits, etc.), go after me for perceived damages (in court or less legally like those ebay executives, etc.), etc. The police of any country put innocent people into jail every single day. Them I'm worried about not some nebulous threat from China.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago

ex3ndr 3y ago

No, they have they are just "IR" cameras and they avoid using word "camera", but they are still pretty much the same cameras.