4 ms·

Such a vehicle is impossible to offer even if they wanted to (they don't) because things like backup cameras and other safety-related equipment are legally requ

by ptmcc 3y ago

Such a vehicle is impossible to offer even if they wanted to (they don't) because things like backup cameras and other safety-related equipment are legally required. Once you require a camera, you require a screen. Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. Et cetera. But automakers would rather you sell you a high-margin truck or SUV than a barebones economy car, anyway. And hardly anyone would buy them even if they did offer them, as we've observed in the decline of sales of regular sedans and hatchbacks in the US over the past couple decades.

kube-system 3y ago
> Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. This is not necessarily the case. When backup cameras were first mandated some manufacturers put the screens in the rear view mirror. The reason everyone has a screen on the dash these days is because new car buyers are often demanding smartphone integrations.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  If they have to add $100 in mandated components they're going to delete $100 in componentry that can be shifted to the screen. Knobs cost money.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    If it was purely penny pinching, they could have stuck with the cheaper smaller screens in the rear view mirror and put a blank panel in the dash instead of a stereo, like base model vehicles of the past sometimes had. But most automakers are spending a couple of extra bucks on a nicer and more expensive screen in the dash because new car buyers don't want to spend new car money on a car with a dashboard that looks like it's from 2001, and it doesn't make sense to save $50 on a car if you can't sell it. Not long ago, you used to be able to buy new cars without AC, power steering, power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions, painted bumpers, stereos, passenger side mirrors, cupholders, center consoles, etc. And it is still legal to do so. But consumer preferences have changed.
    - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
      Wire harnesses are expensive. Running a video signal over the roof uses more wire than keeping it all in the dash.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        They are, but not really that much. Automakers frequently run harnesses with unused wires for lower trims because the expense to inventory multiple parts is more than the wire costs. So it isn't so expensive that they don't waste some wire. On many models there's already a harness run to the front of the roof for other reasons, (garage door opener, compass, safety systems, dome lights, map lights, visor lights, mirror dimmer, microphone) so the labor and assembly costs are mostly already happening anyway. We're talking tens of pennies or single digit dollars of additional cost in material at most. If we pick a popular vehicle with this feature, a 2010 F150, there's a 16 pin connector there, with 12 wires populated. 2 are for the camera. Does it cost more than running 10 wires there? Yes. Was it so much that Ford didn't actually ship the car that way? No. https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-2010-f150-video-cap-mirror-16-pin-plug-2010-rear-view_1.jpg https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-...
- whartung 3y ago
  We rented a Ford Taurus that had the camera in the rear view mirror. It works really well. With my camera, I have to sweep from the camera to the rear view mirror, to the door mirrors, as none of them cover completely, so they all have blind spots. With the screen in the mirror, it's actually a better experience IMHO.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
msabalau 3y ago
I bought brand new Honda Fit with a backup camera 9 years for 17K. There isn't some magic safety dust that is forcing the entry level prices to rise by nearly $10K.

by ptmcc 3y ago

kube-system 3y ago

> Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. This is not necessarily the case. When backup cameras were first mandated some manufacturers put the screens in the rear view mirror. The reason everyone has a screen on the dash these days is because new car buyers are often demanding smartphone integrations.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
If they have to add $100 in mandated components they're going to delete $100 in componentry that can be shifted to the screen. Knobs cost money.
- kube-system 3y ago
  If it was purely penny pinching, they could have stuck with the cheaper smaller screens in the rear view mirror and put a blank panel in the dash instead of a stereo, like base model vehicles of the past sometimes had. But most automakers are spending a couple of extra bucks on a nicer and more expensive screen in the dash because new car buyers don't want to spend new car money on a car with a dashboard that looks like it's from 2001, and it doesn't make sense to save $50 on a car if you can't sell it. Not long ago, you used to be able to buy new cars without AC, power steering, power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions, painted bumpers, stereos, passenger side mirrors, cupholders, center consoles, etc. And it is still legal to do so. But consumer preferences have changed.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    Wire harnesses are expensive. Running a video signal over the roof uses more wire than keeping it all in the dash.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      They are, but not really that much. Automakers frequently run harnesses with unused wires for lower trims because the expense to inventory multiple parts is more than the wire costs. So it isn't so expensive that they don't waste some wire. On many models there's already a harness run to the front of the roof for other reasons, (garage door opener, compass, safety systems, dome lights, map lights, visor lights, mirror dimmer, microphone) so the labor and assembly costs are mostly already happening anyway. We're talking tens of pennies or single digit dollars of additional cost in material at most. If we pick a popular vehicle with this feature, a 2010 F150, there's a 16 pin connector there, with 12 wires populated. 2 are for the camera. Does it cost more than running 10 wires there? Yes. Was it so much that Ford didn't actually ship the car that way? No. https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-2010-f150-video-cap-mirror-16-pin-plug-2010-rear-view_1.jpg https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-...
whartung 3y ago
We rented a Ford Taurus that had the camera in the rear view mirror. It works really well. With my camera, I have to sweep from the camera to the rear view mirror, to the door mirrors, as none of them cover completely, so they all have blind spots. With the screen in the mirror, it's actually a better experience IMHO.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

msabalau 3y ago

I bought brand new Honda Fit with a backup camera 9 years for 17K. There isn't some magic safety dust that is forcing the entry level prices to rise by nearly $10K.