4 ms·

>This car would be unthinkable in today's market - barebones radio, stick shift, no camera, no screen and noisy engine. All I really want are bare-bones vehicl

>This car would be unthinkable in today's market - barebones radio, stick shift, no camera, no screen and noisy engine. All I really want are bare-bones vehicles. I had to practically fight with the Nissan dealership to get their base-model trim. I wish manufacturers would still offer basic vehicles.

ptmcc 3y ago
Such a vehicle is impossible to offer even if they wanted to (they don't) because things like backup cameras and other safety-related equipment are legally required. Once you require a camera, you require a screen. Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. Et cetera. But automakers would rather you sell you a high-margin truck or SUV than a barebones economy car, anyway. And hardly anyone would buy them even if they did offer them, as we've observed in the decline of sales of regular sedans and hatchbacks in the US over the past couple decades.
- kube-system 3y ago
  > Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. This is not necessarily the case. When backup cameras were first mandated some manufacturers put the screens in the rear view mirror. The reason everyone has a screen on the dash these days is because new car buyers are often demanding smartphone integrations.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    If they have to add $100 in mandated components they're going to delete $100 in componentry that can be shifted to the screen. Knobs cost money.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      If it was purely penny pinching, they could have stuck with the cheaper smaller screens in the rear view mirror and put a blank panel in the dash instead of a stereo, like base model vehicles of the past sometimes had. But most automakers are spending a couple of extra bucks on a nicer and more expensive screen in the dash because new car buyers don't want to spend new car money on a car with a dashboard that looks like it's from 2001, and it doesn't make sense to save $50 on a car if you can't sell it. Not long ago, you used to be able to buy new cars without AC, power steering, power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions, painted bumpers, stereos, passenger side mirrors, cupholders, center consoles, etc. And it is still legal to do so. But consumer preferences have changed.
      - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
        Wire harnesses are expensive. Running a video signal over the roof uses more wire than keeping it all in the dash.
        kube-system 3y ago
        They are, but not really that much. Automakers frequently run harnesses with unused wires for lower trims because the expense to inventory multiple parts is more than the wire costs. So it isn't so expensive that they don't waste some wire. On many models there's already a harness run to the front of the roof for other reasons, (garage door opener, compass, safety systems, dome lights, map lights, visor lights, mirror dimmer, microphone) so the labor and assembly costs are mostly already happening anyway. We're talking tens of pennies or single digit dollars of additional cost in material at most. If we pick a popular vehicle with this feature, a 2010 F150, there's a 16 pin connector there, with 12 wires populated. 2 are for the camera. Does it cost more than running 10 wires there? Yes. Was it so much that Ford didn't actually ship the car that way? No. https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-2010-f150-video-cap-mirror-16-pin-plug-2010-rear-view_1.jpg https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-...
  - whartung 3y ago
    We rented a Ford Taurus that had the camera in the rear view mirror. It works really well. With my camera, I have to sweep from the camera to the rear view mirror, to the door mirrors, as none of them cover completely, so they all have blind spots. With the screen in the mirror, it's actually a better experience IMHO.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- msabalau 3y ago
  I bought brand new Honda Fit with a backup camera 9 years for 17K. There isn't some magic safety dust that is forcing the entry level prices to rise by nearly $10K.
manchego 3y ago
I agree that buyers should have the option to purchase simpler cars. But I think backup cameras are too valuable of a safety improvement to leave out. About a year ago I saw a toddler very likely saved by the backup camera and proximity sensor. This is of course just anecdotal, but it sold me.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Wouldn't the proximity sensor be enough? Sounds cheaper and much less prone to unwanted surveillance.
  - manchego 3y ago
    Yeah, I guess then you don't need a screen for display. And to be honest the proximity sensor may have had the greater effect in the situation I referenced. I could hear it beeping from where I was about 30 feet from the car.
lwansbrough 3y ago
I really wish the Hilux Champ was available in North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux_Champ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux_Champ
hedgehog 3y ago
I think the base models are there mostly to be able to advertise a more attractive starting price. I got the base trim of my car but anecdotally the dealership was getting very few of them and on the road I also see very few.
- everdrive 3y ago
  I did manage to get a base model Nissan Frontier. The features it has and lacks are pretty interesting. It's not manual adjusting mirror -- and I don't mean it's got a little knob on the inside. You roll the window down, and then push the mirror itself with your hands to adjust it. I don't mind it being so basic, but it's interesting that this exists, but not the option for manual locks or manual windows.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Manual locks require new jigs on the assembly line for the different parts. Since most people want automatic locks they can save the cost of building those jigs and the inventory management to go with them by not offering it. You only get something as an option if the profit of having the with and without version is more than just offering the "better" option to everyone.
whartung 3y ago
If you want a bare bones car, you would probably have good luck getting a 2 year old vehicle from a rental fleet. Those tend to be pretty bare bones vehicles. It was funny, I rented a truck from Home Depot. It was brand new, less than 100 miles on the clock. And, yea, it was lucky to have paint. Automatic transmission, radio, and air conditioner were the top drawer items. Imagine taking 2 knobs, perhaps 1" in diameter, and AM/FM button, and a LED matrix display big enough to display 105.5 and a "stereo" and AM/FM light. That's how big the radio was on this otherwise large dashboard. Vinyl floors, vinyl bench seat, crank windows. And there's something to it. There's a simplicity having a hot <-> cold slider and a fan speed knob versus arguing with a "climate control" system. It's quite difficult to find stripped models on the dealer lot. They'd much rather upsell you the sunroof you don't want because "well, that's all we have". I've never had a real problem ordering a car, just have to be willing to wait for it, but they've all been domestic. 3 of my last 4 cars were ordered to my spec.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Best new car dash/interior I've seen was inside a U-Haul. I'm holding onto my old cars for now. If/when EVs become default, that'll be a compelling reason to buy a new car.

ptmcc 3y ago

Such a vehicle is impossible to offer even if they wanted to (they don't) because things like backup cameras and other safety-related equipment are legally required. Once you require a camera, you require a screen. Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. Et cetera. But automakers would rather you sell you a high-margin truck or SUV than a barebones economy car, anyway. And hardly anyone would buy them even if they did offer them, as we've observed in the decline of sales of regular sedans and hatchbacks in the US over the past couple decades.

kube-system 3y ago
> Once you have a screen say goodbye to your barebones radio. This is not necessarily the case. When backup cameras were first mandated some manufacturers put the screens in the rear view mirror. The reason everyone has a screen on the dash these days is because new car buyers are often demanding smartphone integrations.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  If they have to add $100 in mandated components they're going to delete $100 in componentry that can be shifted to the screen. Knobs cost money.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    If it was purely penny pinching, they could have stuck with the cheaper smaller screens in the rear view mirror and put a blank panel in the dash instead of a stereo, like base model vehicles of the past sometimes had. But most automakers are spending a couple of extra bucks on a nicer and more expensive screen in the dash because new car buyers don't want to spend new car money on a car with a dashboard that looks like it's from 2001, and it doesn't make sense to save $50 on a car if you can't sell it. Not long ago, you used to be able to buy new cars without AC, power steering, power windows, power locks, automatic transmissions, painted bumpers, stereos, passenger side mirrors, cupholders, center consoles, etc. And it is still legal to do so. But consumer preferences have changed.
    - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
      Wire harnesses are expensive. Running a video signal over the roof uses more wire than keeping it all in the dash.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        They are, but not really that much. Automakers frequently run harnesses with unused wires for lower trims because the expense to inventory multiple parts is more than the wire costs. So it isn't so expensive that they don't waste some wire. On many models there's already a harness run to the front of the roof for other reasons, (garage door opener, compass, safety systems, dome lights, map lights, visor lights, mirror dimmer, microphone) so the labor and assembly costs are mostly already happening anyway. We're talking tens of pennies or single digit dollars of additional cost in material at most. If we pick a popular vehicle with this feature, a 2010 F150, there's a 16 pin connector there, with 12 wires populated. 2 are for the camera. Does it cost more than running 10 wires there? Yes. Was it so much that Ford didn't actually ship the car that way? No. https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-2010-f150-video-cap-mirror-16-pin-plug-2010-rear-view_1.jpg https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f38/470443d1489862009-...
- whartung 3y ago
  We rented a Ford Taurus that had the camera in the rear view mirror. It works really well. With my camera, I have to sweep from the camera to the rear view mirror, to the door mirrors, as none of them cover completely, so they all have blind spots. With the screen in the mirror, it's actually a better experience IMHO.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
msabalau 3y ago
I bought brand new Honda Fit with a backup camera 9 years for 17K. There isn't some magic safety dust that is forcing the entry level prices to rise by nearly $10K.

manchego 3y ago

I agree that buyers should have the option to purchase simpler cars. But I think backup cameras are too valuable of a safety improvement to leave out. About a year ago I saw a toddler very likely saved by the backup camera and proximity sensor. This is of course just anecdotal, but it sold me.

mixmastamyk 3y ago
Wouldn't the proximity sensor be enough? Sounds cheaper and much less prone to unwanted surveillance.
- manchego 3y ago
  Yeah, I guess then you don't need a screen for display. And to be honest the proximity sensor may have had the greater effect in the situation I referenced. I could hear it beeping from where I was about 30 feet from the car.

lwansbrough 3y ago

I really wish the Hilux Champ was available in North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux_Champ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux_Champ

hedgehog 3y ago

I think the base models are there mostly to be able to advertise a more attractive starting price. I got the base trim of my car but anecdotally the dealership was getting very few of them and on the road I also see very few.

everdrive 3y ago
I did manage to get a base model Nissan Frontier. The features it has and lacks are pretty interesting. It's not manual adjusting mirror -- and I don't mean it's got a little knob on the inside. You roll the window down, and then push the mirror itself with your hands to adjust it. I don't mind it being so basic, but it's interesting that this exists, but not the option for manual locks or manual windows.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Manual locks require new jigs on the assembly line for the different parts. Since most people want automatic locks they can save the cost of building those jigs and the inventory management to go with them by not offering it. You only get something as an option if the profit of having the with and without version is more than just offering the "better" option to everyone.

whartung 3y ago

If you want a bare bones car, you would probably have good luck getting a 2 year old vehicle from a rental fleet. Those tend to be pretty bare bones vehicles. It was funny, I rented a truck from Home Depot. It was brand new, less than 100 miles on the clock. And, yea, it was lucky to have paint. Automatic transmission, radio, and air conditioner were the top drawer items. Imagine taking 2 knobs, perhaps 1" in diameter, and AM/FM button, and a LED matrix display big enough to display 105.5 and a "stereo" and AM/FM light. That's how big the radio was on this otherwise large dashboard. Vinyl floors, vinyl bench seat, crank windows. And there's something to it. There's a simplicity having a hot <-> cold slider and a fan speed knob versus arguing with a "climate control" system. It's quite difficult to find stripped models on the dealer lot. They'd much rather upsell you the sunroof you don't want because "well, that's all we have". I've never had a real problem ordering a car, just have to be willing to wait for it, but they've all been domestic. 3 of my last 4 cars were ordered to my spec.

hot_gril 3y ago
Best new car dash/interior I've seen was inside a U-Haul. I'm holding onto my old cars for now. If/when EVs become default, that'll be a compelling reason to buy a new car.