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> I presume it's not much different in other countries, although gang on gang violence may distort the picture a bit. If you count all homicides i would expect

• jijijijij 3y ago
  Yeah, my "expectation" was meant in regard to non-gang violence, which varies by country a lot. Gang on gang, or inner crime violence is for the most part irrelevant to the argument, as it's not something the general population is involved in, usually. My point is, femicides are a much bigger problem than people realize. Considering the majority of murderers and other criminals are men, I don't think it's wild to presume some form of gender specific motivations in those murders, without getting all academic here. Don't know about you infographic, here is recent stats for Germany: https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2022/Bund/Opfer/BU-O-01-T91-Opfer_xls.html https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol...
  • belorn 3y ago
    There is an interesting aspect when looking at gender in intra-relationship violence. The rate of violence is fairly independent on the gender of the couple, meaning that same-sex relationships has the same rate of violence as any other relationship. This statistical phenomenon mean that women in same-sex relationships are twice as violent as other women, and men in same-sex relationships are about half as violent as other men. The big question then is what (if any) gender specific motivations is causing this to occur.
    • jijijijij 3y ago
      Can you link the source for that? It's not that I would completely dismiss it, I think I read it before, but I still would like to see the meaning of "same" here. I think there are many possible explanations, but one certainly shouldn't be ignored over essentialist ones: Co-morbid mental illness and maladapted behavior in LGBT folks, caused by their upbringing and coping with discrimination or alienation. They usually don't have a blueprint for life and have to make up their own gender and community roles. Then there is all sorts of violence imaginable in relation to "gay panic" and self-acceptance. It may be cishet gender roles and the male archetype finding their way into these relationships. Maybe people are just violent opportunists. (I doubt there are as many murders in F4F relationships...) Maybe there are biological causes. Personally, I think it's misguided to separate sexual orientation and identity as fundamentally different. The whole of "sex difference" is produced by effective androgenic and estrogenic signaling throughout life. Like, a cell has no sex. The Y chromosome does about nothing, except for a brief moment mid development, and everything else is genetically identical. All genes affecting androgen effectiveness are located elsewhere. Funnily enough, the androgen receptor is encoded on the X-chromosome, so typically women got the information twice, making it functionally more robust. Androgens role in aggressiveness is well documented, and it's usually relative levels making the difference. Maybe there is some sort of selective order in the lesbian community too. Things like PCOS come to mind. Or a mix of all... There won't be data to give a definitive answer. Honestly, I think it would be more interesting, if murder rates in M4M relationships were lower or higher. Cause sexual objectification definitely is present in some parts of the gay community. Although often in concert with sexual liberation and reciprocity, and I don't think possessive thinking is frequent.
      • belorn 3y ago
        I would point to the government report that the Swedish government did, or the study from Turell (2000) or Messinger (2001), or Kelley et al. (2012). I also recall hearing it from a professor. There are many theories but one of the more reasonable one (in my view) is the simple one. Humans are humans and culture is usually a better explanation than biology. It also fits the challenge hypothesis of the relation between androgens and aggressiveness, which is that androgens function actually has nothing to do with aggressiveness but everything to do with social status and the amount of behavior towards defending against perceived social status threats. Only in a culture where social status is defended through the use of aggression is there a relation between androgens and aggression (An experiment using a setup where social status was defended through non-aggression showed a link with increased androgens and a reduction in aggression, which would indicate this theory to be true). There are also multiple studies looking at self-reported amount of violence in relationships, which tend to show that while the rate of violence by women and men is fairly similar, what is different is how that violence get applied. This would also support the theory that the difference sits in how men apply violence against women, women applies violence against men, men against men and women against women. Same rate of violence, but not the exact same behavior when violence is being applied.