3 ms·

I don't think that's really relevant. It doesn't matter if, diagetically, the world is rooted in Earth or not. Fundamentally, all cultures are going to be base

I don't think that's really relevant. It doesn't matter if, diagetically, the world is rooted in Earth or not. Fundamentally, all cultures are going to be based on real-world human culture, because that is all we know. Even if we try to imagine what a non-human culture looks like, we still construct it with the composite elements we know are common to human cultures. Even the most alien and inhuman cultures any author has ever imagined are still defined by how not like human culture they are. They're a negation of what human culture is, which is to say they're still a reflection of it. We cannot do otherwise. We have never seen a non-human culture equivalent to human culture. Further, all aliens and all fantasy creatures are analogs for humans or analogs for animals. Because that's all we know. Even if we could create a truly alien culture, we could only understand it in terms and concepts that we already have because we do not understand concepts and ideas that we cannot conceive ourselves. Because those are the only concepts and ideas we have ever had exposure to. It's like asking what color infrared or ultraviolet would be. We don't know. We don't have that experience. Or like asking what oranges tastes like if you've only ever had apples, cherries, grapes, and so on. How can we conceptualize something we have no conception for?

bluGill 3y ago
While you are not wrong, you can derive a lot of human culture from first principals based on constraints that are universal. We have to eat for energy: a lot of culture is really built around meals. We grew denser than hunter gathers could find food so we had to start farming, and that density forces a lot of culture on us (you can't just kill each other when someone makes you mad). We expanded to places where we cannot live nude: we have to make and wear clothing - a lot of culture is around clothing (dance and music is different in places where clothing makes movement uncomfortable). Of course there is a lot of variety possible within those, and that is not an exhaustive list. However just those constraints force a lot of culture and while the result for aliens can be different, they will face those same constraints and thus you can develop a lot of similar culture around them.
- da_chicken 3y ago
  Eating is essential to life (as we know it) but I don't think that really creates a significant indicator for whether or not you will develop culture. After all, all creatures have a need for the energy required to survive. Not all of them develop a culture, even if they live in communal groups. Bacteria, I suppose, if you don't mind some equivocation. The causes of the agricultural revolution, OTOH, are debated. I'm not clear that it was simply a solution to population density. It came after animal husbandry. We know that. But the reasons that have been claimed have been anything from "population pressure" to "we discovered how to make alcohol" to "it was the only way to make enough food for our animals" to "climate changes." It's almost certainly more complex than any one factor because you need a lot of knowledge and technology to make settlment a feasible means of surviving year over year. Food preservation is a major hurdle. It doesn't really matter if you can grow more food than you can eat if you only have that food for six weeks during the fall and then it all rots. Clothing however? There are plenty of creatures we know of that don't require body protection beyond what they natively possess. Why would every sapient creature do so? The truth is that we don't know how another culture might develop into a civilization because we've only ever seen ours. The number of unknown priors that might allow the creation of a different way of advancement is the core problem. Ours is fundamentally built on working together. Is that necessary? Ours is built around the temporal nature of human life. Is that universal to all life? The only reason we assume so in our literature is because there's no real way to tell a story about something unknown, unimaginable, or incomprehensible. Until we experience it, it will simply lack verisimilitude.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    > The causes of the agricultural revolution, OTOH, are debated. True, but that doesn't change the point that it is a great influence on culture. And also you are unlikely to reach an advanced stage without the productivity improvements it provides at scale. (People who have to get their own food every day don't have time to think about physics) > There are plenty of creatures we know of that don't require body protection beyond what they natively possess. Again, only in the specific climate their body is "designed" for. All of them need some form of shelter (which could be AC) to survive elsewhere. Note that we are really only interested in advanced civilization. Lions have an interesting culture, but they don't make for interesting stories.

bluGill 3y ago

While you are not wrong, you can derive a lot of human culture from first principals based on constraints that are universal. We have to eat for energy: a lot of culture is really built around meals. We grew denser than hunter gathers could find food so we had to start farming, and that density forces a lot of culture on us (you can't just kill each other when someone makes you mad). We expanded to places where we cannot live nude: we have to make and wear clothing - a lot of culture is around clothing (dance and music is different in places where clothing makes movement uncomfortable). Of course there is a lot of variety possible within those, and that is not an exhaustive list. However just those constraints force a lot of culture and while the result for aliens can be different, they will face those same constraints and thus you can develop a lot of similar culture around them.

da_chicken 3y ago
Eating is essential to life (as we know it) but I don't think that really creates a significant indicator for whether or not you will develop culture. After all, all creatures have a need for the energy required to survive. Not all of them develop a culture, even if they live in communal groups. Bacteria, I suppose, if you don't mind some equivocation. The causes of the agricultural revolution, OTOH, are debated. I'm not clear that it was simply a solution to population density. It came after animal husbandry. We know that. But the reasons that have been claimed have been anything from "population pressure" to "we discovered how to make alcohol" to "it was the only way to make enough food for our animals" to "climate changes." It's almost certainly more complex than any one factor because you need a lot of knowledge and technology to make settlment a feasible means of surviving year over year. Food preservation is a major hurdle. It doesn't really matter if you can grow more food than you can eat if you only have that food for six weeks during the fall and then it all rots. Clothing however? There are plenty of creatures we know of that don't require body protection beyond what they natively possess. Why would every sapient creature do so? The truth is that we don't know how another culture might develop into a civilization because we've only ever seen ours. The number of unknown priors that might allow the creation of a different way of advancement is the core problem. Ours is fundamentally built on working together. Is that necessary? Ours is built around the temporal nature of human life. Is that universal to all life? The only reason we assume so in our literature is because there's no real way to tell a story about something unknown, unimaginable, or incomprehensible. Until we experience it, it will simply lack verisimilitude.
- bluGill 3y ago
  > The causes of the agricultural revolution, OTOH, are debated. True, but that doesn't change the point that it is a great influence on culture. And also you are unlikely to reach an advanced stage without the productivity improvements it provides at scale. (People who have to get their own food every day don't have time to think about physics) > There are plenty of creatures we know of that don't require body protection beyond what they natively possess. Again, only in the specific climate their body is "designed" for. All of them need some form of shelter (which could be AC) to survive elsewhere. Note that we are really only interested in advanced civilization. Lions have an interesting culture, but they don't make for interesting stories.