5 ms·

I guess for me it depends on what the law considers "social media". Is something like the bulletin boards we used to have around the late 90s/early 2000s socia

I guess for me it depends on what the law considers "social media". Is something like the bulletin boards we used to have around the late 90s/early 2000s social media? What about chat rooms? Local social web sites for the school or your city? I think a lot of these things can even be beneficial, if I think about my own experiences as a somewhat introverted teenager. And what about things like Netflix, Youtube, Podcasts? They can be just as harmful as TokTok and Instagram. Especially on Youtube you have a lot of similar content. I've found accounts that claim to be official accounts of children's shows - maybe they even are - and which are full of nonsensical videos, just randomly cut together action scenes of multiple episodes. It's like crack for children. Of course YouTube doesn't do anything, they want you to pay for YouTube kids. And the rights holders want you to buy the content, so they leave the poor quality stuff up. The thing is, exploitative content is always going to be created as long as there are incentives to do so. You can ban stuff, but it's whack-a-mole, and you are going to kill a lot of interesting stuff as collateral damage. The alternative is much harder, change the incentives so we can keep our cool technology and people are not awarded for making harmful stuff with it. But that would require economic and political changes, and people don't like to think about it.

scythe 3y ago
> I guess for me it depends on what the law considers "social media". It's a bill written by the Florida House of Representatives, so there's a definition there. Mind you, it's the Florida House, which has put out some extremely bad laws in its current session -- from "Parental Rights in Education" to the Disney speech retaliation. But given that this is a less ostensibly partisan issue, there are reasons for hope. The definition seems narrowly tailored. I think that part (d)1d is a questionable choice, since most social media platforms will probably argue that they are not really "designed" to be addictive (for various definitions of "designed" and "addictive"). It appears that specific exemptions were made for YouTube, Craigslist and LinkedIn (without mentioning those companies by name), and algorithmic content selection is part of the definition. This is one of the better versions of this law I could imagine being written by a state legislature, though it isn't without its faults. It's nice to see my home state in the news for something good for once. I agree that YouTube is a particularly difficult case. But part of the problem comes from using it as a digital pacifier, rather than peer pressure. There's no particular reason why the technology market should produce a free stream of child-appropriate videos. Ad-supported media has its ups and downs, but when the targets of those ads are young children, it's much harder to defend. And parents have more control over the behavior of their 4-year-olds than their 14-year-olds. Here's the definition: >(d) "Social media platform:" >1. Means an online forum, website, or application offered39 by an entity that does all of the following: >a. Allows the social media platform to track the activity of the account holder. >b. Allows an account holder to upload content or view the content or activity of other account holders. >c. Allows an account holder to interact with or track other account holders. >d. Utilizes addictive, harmful, or deceptive design features, or any other feature that is designed to cause an account holder to have an excessive or compulsive need to use or engage with the social media platform. >e. Allows the utilization of information derived from the social media platform's tracking of the activity of an account holder to control or target at least part of the content offered to the account holder. >2. Does not include an online service, website, or application where the predominant or exclusive function is: >a. Electronic mail. >b. Direct messaging consisting of text, photos, or videos that are sent between devices by electronic means whe re messages are shared between the sender and the recipient only, visible to the sender and the recipient, and are not posted publicly. >c. A streaming service that provides only licensed media in a continuous flow from the service, website, or application to the end user and does not obtain a license to the media from a user or account holder by agreement to its terms of service. >d. News, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, and any chat, comment, or interactive functionality that is provided incidental to, directly related to, or dependent upon provision of the content. >e. Online shopping or e-commerce, if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to the ability to upload a post and comment on reviews or display lists or collections of goods for sale or wish lists, or other functions that are focused on online shopping or e-commerce rather than interaction between users or account holders. > f. Interactive gaming, virtual gaming, or an online service, that allows the creation and uploading of content for the purpose of interactive gaming, edutainment, or associated entertainment, and the communication related to that content. > g. Photo editing that has an associated photo hosting service, if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to liking or commenting. > h. A professional creative network for showcasing and discovering artistic content, if the content is required to be non-pornographic. > i. Single-purpose community groups for public safety if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to that single purpose and the community group has guidelines or policies against illegal content. > j. To provide career development opportunities, including professional networking, job skills, learning certifications, and job posting and application services. > k. Business to business software. > l. A teleconferencing or videoconferencing service that allows reception and transmission of audio and video signals for real time communication. > m. Shared document collaboration. > n. Cloud computing services, which may include cloud o. To provide access to or interacting with data visualization platforms, libraries, or hubs. > p. To permit comments on a digital news website, if the news content is posted only by the provider of the digital news website. > q. To provide or obtain technical support for a platform, product, or service. > r. Academic, scholarly, or genealogical research where the majority of the content that is posted or created is posted or created by the provider of the online service, website, or application and the ability to chat, comment, or interact with other users is directly related to the provider's content. > s. A classified ad service that only permits the sale of goods and prohibits the solicitation of personal services or that is used by and under the direction of an educational entity, including: > (I) A learning management system; > (II) A student engagement program; and > (III) A subject or skill-specific program.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  > The definition seems narrowly tailored The fact that are well over a dozen exceptions carved out strongly suggests that the definition is anything but narrowly tailored, and the authors of the bill preferred to add in exceptions to everyone who objected rather than rethinking their broad definitions. 1a-c will be trivially satisfied by anything that "has user accounts" and "allow users to comment". 1e is clearly meant to cover "algorithmic" recommendations, but it's worded so broadly that a feature that includes "threads you've commented on" would satisfy this prong. 1d is problematic; it can be interpreted so narrowly that nothing applies, or so broadly that everything applies. IANAL, but I think you'd have a decent shot of going after this for unconstitutionally vague on this prong for sure. Discounting 1d, this means that virtually every website in existence qualifies as social media sites, at least before you start applying exceptions. Not just Facebook or Twitter, but things like Twitch, Discord, Paradox web forums, Usenet, an MMO game, even news sites and Wikipedia are going to qualify as social media platforms. Actually, given that it's not covered by any of the exceptions, Wikipedia is a social media platform according to Florida, and I guess would therefore be illegal for kids to use. Even more hilariously, Blackboard (the software I had to use in school for all the online stuff at school) qualifies as a social media platform that would be illegal for kids to use.
  - soared 3y ago
    Agreed - they’re effectively banning most commonly used websites and then carving out exceptions.
  - scythe 3y ago
    >Discounting 1d, this means that virtually every website in existence qualifies as social media sites Most websites would not satisfy 1e. Hacker News, for example. Traditional forums do not satisfy 1e. >1e is clearly meant to cover "algorithmic" recommendations, but it's worded so broadly that a feature that includes "threads you've commented on" would satisfy this prong. There could be some haggling over this, but I don't think that reading it in the least reasonable possible way is likely to fly in court. In particular, 1e stipulates "content offered". If "threads you've commented on" is content that the user has to request, e.g. by viewing a profile page or an inbox, that might not be considered "offering". It also says "control or target", but content with a simple bright-line definition like that is probably not controlled and certainly not targeted. >The fact that are well over a dozen exceptions carved out strongly suggests that the definition is anything but narrowly tailored >at least before you start applying exceptions. Yes, the definition is excessively broad if you ignore the majority of the text in the definition. This is a circular argument. >Actually, given that it's not covered by any of the exceptions, Wikipedia is a social media platform Exception 2m, shared document collaboration. But I don't think Wikipedia satisfies 1e either. >Blackboard (the software I had to use in school for all the online stuff at school) qualifies as a social media platform Probably qualifies under 2s or 2m. I'm not familiar enough with the platform to know if it satisfies 1e.

scythe 3y ago

> I guess for me it depends on what the law considers "social media". It's a bill written by the Florida House of Representatives, so there's a definition there. Mind you, it's the Florida House, which has put out some extremely bad laws in its current session -- from "Parental Rights in Education" to the Disney speech retaliation. But given that this is a less ostensibly partisan issue, there are reasons for hope. The definition seems narrowly tailored. I think that part (d)1d is a questionable choice, since most social media platforms will probably argue that they are not really "designed" to be addictive (for various definitions of "designed" and "addictive"). It appears that specific exemptions were made for YouTube, Craigslist and LinkedIn (without mentioning those companies by name), and algorithmic content selection is part of the definition. This is one of the better versions of this law I could imagine being written by a state legislature, though it isn't without its faults. It's nice to see my home state in the news for something good for once. I agree that YouTube is a particularly difficult case. But part of the problem comes from using it as a digital pacifier, rather than peer pressure. There's no particular reason why the technology market should produce a free stream of child-appropriate videos. Ad-supported media has its ups and downs, but when the targets of those ads are young children, it's much harder to defend. And parents have more control over the behavior of their 4-year-olds than their 14-year-olds. Here's the definition: >(d) "Social media platform:" >1. Means an online forum, website, or application offered39 by an entity that does all of the following: >a. Allows the social media platform to track the activity of the account holder. >b. Allows an account holder to upload content or view the content or activity of other account holders. >c. Allows an account holder to interact with or track other account holders. >d. Utilizes addictive, harmful, or deceptive design features, or any other feature that is designed to cause an account holder to have an excessive or compulsive need to use or engage with the social media platform. >e. Allows the utilization of information derived from the social media platform's tracking of the activity of an account holder to control or target at least part of the content offered to the account holder. >2. Does not include an online service, website, or application where the predominant or exclusive function is: >a. Electronic mail. >b. Direct messaging consisting of text, photos, or videos that are sent between devices by electronic means whe re messages are shared between the sender and the recipient only, visible to the sender and the recipient, and are not posted publicly. >c. A streaming service that provides only licensed media in a continuous flow from the service, website, or application to the end user and does not obtain a license to the media from a user or account holder by agreement to its terms of service. >d. News, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, and any chat, comment, or interactive functionality that is provided incidental to, directly related to, or dependent upon provision of the content. >e. Online shopping or e-commerce, if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to the ability to upload a post and comment on reviews or display lists or collections of goods for sale or wish lists, or other functions that are focused on online shopping or e-commerce rather than interaction between users or account holders. > f. Interactive gaming, virtual gaming, or an online service, that allows the creation and uploading of content for the purpose of interactive gaming, edutainment, or associated entertainment, and the communication related to that content. > g. Photo editing that has an associated photo hosting service, if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to liking or commenting. > h. A professional creative network for showcasing and discovering artistic content, if the content is required to be non-pornographic. > i. Single-purpose community groups for public safety if the interaction with other users or account holders is generally limited to that single purpose and the community group has guidelines or policies against illegal content. > j. To provide career development opportunities, including professional networking, job skills, learning certifications, and job posting and application services. > k. Business to business software. > l. A teleconferencing or videoconferencing service that allows reception and transmission of audio and video signals for real time communication. > m. Shared document collaboration. > n. Cloud computing services, which may include cloud o. To provide access to or interacting with data visualization platforms, libraries, or hubs. > p. To permit comments on a digital news website, if the news content is posted only by the provider of the digital news website. > q. To provide or obtain technical support for a platform, product, or service. > r. Academic, scholarly, or genealogical research where the majority of the content that is posted or created is posted or created by the provider of the online service, website, or application and the ability to chat, comment, or interact with other users is directly related to the provider's content. > s. A classified ad service that only permits the sale of goods and prohibits the solicitation of personal services or that is used by and under the direction of an educational entity, including: > (I) A learning management system; > (II) A student engagement program; and > (III) A subject or skill-specific program.

jcranmer 3y ago
> The definition seems narrowly tailored The fact that are well over a dozen exceptions carved out strongly suggests that the definition is anything but narrowly tailored, and the authors of the bill preferred to add in exceptions to everyone who objected rather than rethinking their broad definitions. 1a-c will be trivially satisfied by anything that "has user accounts" and "allow users to comment". 1e is clearly meant to cover "algorithmic" recommendations, but it's worded so broadly that a feature that includes "threads you've commented on" would satisfy this prong. 1d is problematic; it can be interpreted so narrowly that nothing applies, or so broadly that everything applies. IANAL, but I think you'd have a decent shot of going after this for unconstitutionally vague on this prong for sure. Discounting 1d, this means that virtually every website in existence qualifies as social media sites, at least before you start applying exceptions. Not just Facebook or Twitter, but things like Twitch, Discord, Paradox web forums, Usenet, an MMO game, even news sites and Wikipedia are going to qualify as social media platforms. Actually, given that it's not covered by any of the exceptions, Wikipedia is a social media platform according to Florida, and I guess would therefore be illegal for kids to use. Even more hilariously, Blackboard (the software I had to use in school for all the online stuff at school) qualifies as a social media platform that would be illegal for kids to use.
- soared 3y ago
  Agreed - they’re effectively banning most commonly used websites and then carving out exceptions.
- scythe 3y ago
  >Discounting 1d, this means that virtually every website in existence qualifies as social media sites Most websites would not satisfy 1e. Hacker News, for example. Traditional forums do not satisfy 1e. >1e is clearly meant to cover "algorithmic" recommendations, but it's worded so broadly that a feature that includes "threads you've commented on" would satisfy this prong. There could be some haggling over this, but I don't think that reading it in the least reasonable possible way is likely to fly in court. In particular, 1e stipulates "content offered". If "threads you've commented on" is content that the user has to request, e.g. by viewing a profile page or an inbox, that might not be considered "offering". It also says "control or target", but content with a simple bright-line definition like that is probably not controlled and certainly not targeted. >The fact that are well over a dozen exceptions carved out strongly suggests that the definition is anything but narrowly tailored >at least before you start applying exceptions. Yes, the definition is excessively broad if you ignore the majority of the text in the definition. This is a circular argument. >Actually, given that it's not covered by any of the exceptions, Wikipedia is a social media platform Exception 2m, shared document collaboration. But I don't think Wikipedia satisfies 1e either. >Blackboard (the software I had to use in school for all the online stuff at school) qualifies as a social media platform Probably qualifies under 2s or 2m. I'm not familiar enough with the platform to know if it satisfies 1e.