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Given that we already have the concepts of exported entry points and extern in C, this should already be possible to a certain extent. The only other thing whic

Given that we already have the concepts of exported entry points and extern in C, this should already be possible to a certain extent. The only other thing which needs to happen is that ELFs should have the concept of exported data structures, so while "URL" might not be a defined structure in the OS, something like curl can provide it. Too bad we're stuck with UNIX/POSIX model - you could even take this idea of exported data structures and have the terminal represent data in the preferred users format instead of having tools like jq.

sph 3y ago
We have dlopen and we can list exported symbols, but we have no information about a function's arguments, ABI and calling convention, so it's pretty much impossible to turn UNIX into a fully late-bound and interactive REPL. Same issue with syscalls. The only way is starting from scratch, with a novel approach and programming model.
- overboard2 3y ago
  Or you could add some more sections to object files. Just make clang and/or gcc export function signatures, structs, enums, and typedefs
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    I wonder if one of the existing interpreted languages (python/javascript/ruby/whatever) could maintain a patch for llmv/gcc which did exactly that and in the process make the most incredible seamless integration ever between itself and C (and also C++ now with its ABI stabilizing!)
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  Why can’t you add additional data about the data types of parameters in a separate ELF section? It would be only used by programs that look for it like a specially designed shell. The calling convention can be assumed to be the same as used by the OS/arch combination.
  - sph 3y ago
    You could, but you then have to recompile the world with this new information stored as a ELF header or something, and good luck if the library is not written in C (so it has its own conventions, ABI, memory model and binary format) I'm talking about the status quo today, not how you can improve in a perfect world where everybody adopts a better way of doing things. Implementing an half-baked Smalltalk layer on top of UNIX will not turn UNIX into a Smalltalk environment.
Tyr42 3y ago
PowerShell?
int_19h 3y ago
With CLR assemblies, you get rich embedded metadata including UDTs like structs and unions, and architecture-portable JIT-compiled bytecode to boot - both sufficient to map the entirety of C data and execution model.

sph 3y ago

We have dlopen and we can list exported symbols, but we have no information about a function's arguments, ABI and calling convention, so it's pretty much impossible to turn UNIX into a fully late-bound and interactive REPL. Same issue with syscalls. The only way is starting from scratch, with a novel approach and programming model.

overboard2 3y ago
Or you could add some more sections to object files. Just make clang and/or gcc export function signatures, structs, enums, and typedefs
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  I wonder if one of the existing interpreted languages (python/javascript/ruby/whatever) could maintain a patch for llmv/gcc which did exactly that and in the process make the most incredible seamless integration ever between itself and C (and also C++ now with its ABI stabilizing!)
supriyo-biswas 3y ago
Why can’t you add additional data about the data types of parameters in a separate ELF section? It would be only used by programs that look for it like a specially designed shell. The calling convention can be assumed to be the same as used by the OS/arch combination.
- sph 3y ago
  You could, but you then have to recompile the world with this new information stored as a ELF header or something, and good luck if the library is not written in C (so it has its own conventions, ABI, memory model and binary format) I'm talking about the status quo today, not how you can improve in a perfect world where everybody adopts a better way of doing things. Implementing an half-baked Smalltalk layer on top of UNIX will not turn UNIX into a Smalltalk environment.

Tyr42 3y ago

PowerShell?

int_19h 3y ago

With CLR assemblies, you get rich embedded metadata including UDTs like structs and unions, and architecture-portable JIT-compiled bytecode to boot - both sufficient to map the entirety of C data and execution model.