3 ms·

Usually it's from someone who has never wrote a single line of code to improve the situation either.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Please spare us of this tired trope. People who don't contribute to FOSS, are also allowed to have an opinion on FOSS if they're users of it. Otherwise how would they know what to improve if you don't allow feedback from users? What you're saying is like car companies thinking their customers' opinions are irelevant because their customers never contributed to designing parts of a car. If you're designing a mainstream product that's not just targeting professional SW developers who can contribute back with code, but also average users who will only use it but never contribute, then you will need to be open to mainstream levels of feedback that represent the average user and not just programmers. Otherwise let's keep complaining Linux and FOSS alternatives have only ~2% market share that it's somehow the users' fault for only buying Microsoft/Apple and not the projects' for being stubborn to feedback and out of touch with their mainstream users.
- EasyMark 3y ago
  I have contributed and improved more than a few FOSS pieces of software that I used when I thought it could use improvement or a bug fix, or even just documentation of the bug. FOSS isn't a company, and a huge portion of contributors aren't paid a dime. It bothers me when people criticize with vehemence against the developers, where I express my opinion is on the nature of belligerent complaints vs helpful ones. Have a nice day.
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    No, they're right. It's not a requirement to sling code to put your opinions out there about open source.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Everyone has their opinions. There are so many opinions out there, it isn’t really clear what to do with them. Put them out there, fine, now everybody else just has to decide if they care. One way to tell if you should care about an opinion is to check and see if the person professing it has taken any concrete actions toward getting the world to align with it.
      - Klonoar 3y ago
        > There are so many opinions out there, it isn’t really clear what to do with them. Thankfully large projects generally have feedback loop systems to figure out how to parse that feedback. The rest of your comment isn't particularly contributing to the discussion here, short of trying to re-cement a broken take.
- t43562 3y ago
  I remember my cousin telling me how horrible it was to work at a hotel - you really found out how horrible people could be when they thought they were owed something. Staff there obviously had to put up with it because that was their job. Regarding FOSS, I think some users forget that they're at a free lunch and are unpleasant and insistent about their complaints as if they were paying. They're not entitled to service and don't seem to realise it. As to whether everyone else should listen - sure - but nobody is forced to work overtime just to right some wrong in OSS software because person A was very upset about it.
mardifoufs 3y ago
In this case, PRs were made for close to a decade, tons of people implemented the feature in forks etc but upstream just didn't want it. You can't tell people to just write the code since it's open source when that's irrelevant here, the code itself wasn't what was missing. Though I still think it's great that it is now done regardless of the weird historic that specific feature had.
- tuna74 3y ago
  Please show any fork where the features you (don't) describe were available.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    There are gtk file picker forks (like Nemo I think?) But I guess you could argue that they didn't just add the file picker thumbnails. So here is an example of a patch to make thumbnails work: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/gtk3-filechooser-icon-view.patch?h=gtk3-patched-filechooser-icon-view https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/gtk3-filechooser...
    - tuna74 3y ago
      Use the forks if you want to then. Also, why isn't that patch in an MR to GTK (if the author wanted to upstream it)?
      - mardifoufs 3y ago
        Okay sure? I never said otherwise, you asked me for forks and I gave them to you. What's your point? I get that open source needs people to complain less and contribute more, my point is just that while it might be valid for tons of situations, it just isn't make sense for the file picker thumbnails saga. As for the Mr, again there were a few of them and it's very easy to find. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233#note_106497 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233#note_106497 The whole thread is full of people actively writing, fixing, rebasing code, creating MRs for years

Please spare us of this tired trope. People who don't contribute to FOSS, are also allowed to have an opinion on FOSS if they're users of it. Otherwise how would they know what to improve if you don't allow feedback from users? What you're saying is like car companies thinking their customers' opinions are irelevant because their customers never contributed to designing parts of a car. If you're designing a mainstream product that's not just targeting professional SW developers who can contribute back with code, but also average users who will only use it but never contribute, then you will need to be open to mainstream levels of feedback that represent the average user and not just programmers. Otherwise let's keep complaining Linux and FOSS alternatives have only ~2% market share that it's somehow the users' fault for only buying Microsoft/Apple and not the projects' for being stubborn to feedback and out of touch with their mainstream users.

EasyMark 3y ago
I have contributed and improved more than a few FOSS pieces of software that I used when I thought it could use improvement or a bug fix, or even just documentation of the bug. FOSS isn't a company, and a huge portion of contributors aren't paid a dime. It bothers me when people criticize with vehemence against the developers, where I express my opinion is on the nature of belligerent complaints vs helpful ones. Have a nice day.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  No, they're right. It's not a requirement to sling code to put your opinions out there about open source.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    Everyone has their opinions. There are so many opinions out there, it isn’t really clear what to do with them. Put them out there, fine, now everybody else just has to decide if they care. One way to tell if you should care about an opinion is to check and see if the person professing it has taken any concrete actions toward getting the world to align with it.
    - Klonoar 3y ago
      > There are so many opinions out there, it isn’t really clear what to do with them. Thankfully large projects generally have feedback loop systems to figure out how to parse that feedback. The rest of your comment isn't particularly contributing to the discussion here, short of trying to re-cement a broken take.
t43562 3y ago
I remember my cousin telling me how horrible it was to work at a hotel - you really found out how horrible people could be when they thought they were owed something. Staff there obviously had to put up with it because that was their job. Regarding FOSS, I think some users forget that they're at a free lunch and are unpleasant and insistent about their complaints as if they were paying. They're not entitled to service and don't seem to realise it. As to whether everyone else should listen - sure - but nobody is forced to work overtime just to right some wrong in OSS software because person A was very upset about it.

mardifoufs 3y ago

In this case, PRs were made for close to a decade, tons of people implemented the feature in forks etc but upstream just didn't want it. You can't tell people to just write the code since it's open source when that's irrelevant here, the code itself wasn't what was missing. Though I still think it's great that it is now done regardless of the weird historic that specific feature had.

tuna74 3y ago
Please show any fork where the features you (don't) describe were available.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  There are gtk file picker forks (like Nemo I think?) But I guess you could argue that they didn't just add the file picker thumbnails. So here is an example of a patch to make thumbnails work: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/gtk3-filechooser-icon-view.patch?h=gtk3-patched-filechooser-icon-view https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/gtk3-filechooser...
  - tuna74 3y ago
    Use the forks if you want to then. Also, why isn't that patch in an MR to GTK (if the author wanted to upstream it)?
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Okay sure? I never said otherwise, you asked me for forks and I gave them to you. What's your point? I get that open source needs people to complain less and contribute more, my point is just that while it might be valid for tons of situations, it just isn't make sense for the file picker thumbnails saga. As for the Mr, again there were a few of them and it's very easy to find. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233#note_106497 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233#note_106497 The whole thread is full of people actively writing, fixing, rebasing code, creating MRs for years