4 ms·

How many of these game engines are abstracted at a level where you can swap in a pdf or svg backend? How many of them support cmyk and and print units? I'm on

How many of these game engines are abstracted at a level where you can swap in a pdf or svg backend? How many of them support cmyk and and print units? I'm only scratching the surface of things a gui renderer needs that a game engine doesn't. I'm very skeptical that a bunch of game developers are going to whip together something that crushes Skia in performance without sacrificing a ton of capabilities.

lukan 3y ago
"swap in a pdf or svg backend" I am not sure, if I understand you right, but do you mean rendering to pdf or svg instead of the GPU? If so, are there real world use cases? "crushes Skia in performance without sacrificing a ton of capabilities" Same question, what of those capabilities are really in use and needed? Linux GUIs in general are really not a beacon of light, in terms of performance or usability. I strongly suspect things could be better, if some bloat would be removed. I am amazed with what is possible with PixiJS, a renderer for the Web, using WebGL and soon WebGPU. Having something simple, but powerful as the base, would be my way to go.
- hmry 3y ago
  Saving websites as PDF comes to mind. If taking screenshots of windows as SVG was possible I would definitely use it.
  - lukan 3y ago
    A screenshot of a rasterized image saved in SVG is not something I see any use for. It will be a bloated monstrosity. SVG is vector graphics, when you already have pixels - there is no clear way going back.
    - chris_wot 3y ago
      I think he means taking the scenegraph and saving it directly to SVG. Pretty much how it would be done for PDF.
      - lukan 3y ago
        Ah, right. Does not sound too complicated, but is an entirely seperated render path. And apparently now supported? But I have never seen it put to use.
        chris_wot 3y ago
        It seems super complicated to me :-) cool idea though
        lukan 3y ago
        I got the impression from above, that this is something possible now, yet I have never seen such a capability. And I thing the effort will be way greater the reward to implement from scratch .. ("Easy" assumed, there is already something there)
        themerone 3y ago
        Cairo and Skia can do this.
        lukan 3y ago
        But is there a real world use case, where this actually was put to use? (Sorry, I am having flashbacks of the debate with X and wayland, where it was argued, but X is network transparent, except that it wasn't anymore since a long time and, or because - no one used it)
        tadfisher 3y ago
        The "Save to PDF" feature in Firefox's print settings uses the Skia-to-PDF renderer on various platforms, I believe.
        lukan 3y ago
        And for SVG? Having features is nice, but not if they are not really necessary and come at the cost of the core feature (performant screen renderer).
    - vilhelm_s 3y ago
      SVG files can refer to images for bitmap graphics, only the rectangles, text, etc would be specified as vectors. See https://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/494-Better_PDF_screenshots_with_gtk_3 https://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/494-Better_PDF_screensh... for a demo.
  - meragrin_ 3y ago
    Um, isn't that an application feature?
    - themerone 3y ago
      How do you expect applications to implement it without a renderer?
- bluGill 3y ago
  Printers often want pdf or postscript. Or if not some other format that isn't a regular GPU supported thing. Games rarely support printing, the main use is take a screenshot which uses the OS not the game engine, which is great for games. However if you are writing something where printing is important you want more control over the output than a screenshot can give (printers tend to be much higher resolution, but you have to deal with paper size - two things that should be passed back to the application as you can often make adjustments to better use show things when you know those limits - there are other compromises in printing too that may matter)

lukan 3y ago

"swap in a pdf or svg backend" I am not sure, if I understand you right, but do you mean rendering to pdf or svg instead of the GPU? If so, are there real world use cases? "crushes Skia in performance without sacrificing a ton of capabilities" Same question, what of those capabilities are really in use and needed? Linux GUIs in general are really not a beacon of light, in terms of performance or usability. I strongly suspect things could be better, if some bloat would be removed. I am amazed with what is possible with PixiJS, a renderer for the Web, using WebGL and soon WebGPU. Having something simple, but powerful as the base, would be my way to go.

hmry 3y ago
Saving websites as PDF comes to mind. If taking screenshots of windows as SVG was possible I would definitely use it.
- lukan 3y ago
  A screenshot of a rasterized image saved in SVG is not something I see any use for. It will be a bloated monstrosity. SVG is vector graphics, when you already have pixels - there is no clear way going back.
  - chris_wot 3y ago
    I think he means taking the scenegraph and saving it directly to SVG. Pretty much how it would be done for PDF.
    - lukan 3y ago
      Ah, right. Does not sound too complicated, but is an entirely seperated render path. And apparently now supported? But I have never seen it put to use.
      - chris_wot 3y ago
        It seems super complicated to me :-) cool idea though
        lukan 3y ago
        I got the impression from above, that this is something possible now, yet I have never seen such a capability. And I thing the effort will be way greater the reward to implement from scratch .. ("Easy" assumed, there is already something there)
      - themerone 3y ago
        Cairo and Skia can do this.
        lukan 3y ago
        But is there a real world use case, where this actually was put to use? (Sorry, I am having flashbacks of the debate with X and wayland, where it was argued, but X is network transparent, except that it wasn't anymore since a long time and, or because - no one used it)
        tadfisher 3y ago
        The "Save to PDF" feature in Firefox's print settings uses the Skia-to-PDF renderer on various platforms, I believe.
        lukan 3y ago
        And for SVG? Having features is nice, but not if they are not really necessary and come at the cost of the core feature (performant screen renderer).
  - vilhelm_s 3y ago
    SVG files can refer to images for bitmap graphics, only the rectangles, text, etc would be specified as vectors. See https://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/494-Better_PDF_screenshots_with_gtk_3 https://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/494-Better_PDF_screensh... for a demo.
- meragrin_ 3y ago
  Um, isn't that an application feature?
  - themerone 3y ago
    How do you expect applications to implement it without a renderer?
bluGill 3y ago
Printers often want pdf or postscript. Or if not some other format that isn't a regular GPU supported thing. Games rarely support printing, the main use is take a screenshot which uses the OS not the game engine, which is great for games. However if you are writing something where printing is important you want more control over the output than a screenshot can give (printers tend to be much higher resolution, but you have to deal with paper size - two things that should be passed back to the application as you can often make adjustments to better use show things when you know those limits - there are other compromises in printing too that may matter)