3 ms·

Cannot recommend: full-time work nowadays; maybe it tells something about email and its protocols too.

by jruohonen 3y ago

fruktmix 3y ago
Yeah, I've seen it's a big hassle but I reckon these open source alternatives helps?
- jruohonen 3y ago
  > Yeah, I've seen it's a big hassle A huge hassle, in fact. Even with robust exchangers, like Postix, and careful all around hardening, you are going to get a fight of your life.
  - fruktmix 3y ago
    It's time new something new. Why cling the the days of yore?
  - wyclif 3y ago
    Sure it's a big hassle if all you want to do is get your email. But it's still a great way to learn how to administer email if you intend to get a sysadmin or ops job.
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    It's so weird how whenever this topic comes up on HN, a bunch of people appear who all say 'nope, impossible, don't even try, you'll never achieve reliable delivery to [2 big names]' Meanwhile a bunch of other people are saying 'despite many people here reporting issues, once I got the software installed, it works fine for me' Really makes you think
    - fruktmix 3y ago
      Good point. I think that one of the things that got this discussion to fire up was that I didn't say that I didn't mind my emails going to spam box (I know it's very tricky getting whitelisted). And I think, some of those who say 'nope, impossible' is referring to getting whitelisted while those who say 'works fine for me' are people fine with not being whitelisted.
      - 15457345234 3y ago
        > while those who say 'works fine for me' are people fine with not being whitelisted. I mean, my working theory here is that it's easy to get whitelisted - in fact you'll probably be whitelisted by default if you have working DMARC and DKIM etc - but companies who operate large mail installations also operate AI 'agents' that aim to drive traffic and users towards their service. That includes spreading negative sentiment i.e. convincing users on forums that setting up their own mailserver is an impossible task and that they'll never be able to achieve delivery etc. Of course I could be wrong.
        actionfromafar 3y ago
        I think it depends a lot on also, what you use your email server for. I never had a problem, but it's for my personal mail only. Very low traffic. Meanwhile, if you use it for marketing or something, I think more things can go wrong.
necovek 3y ago
Is it? My mail continues to work after initially set up long time ago (decade or two): sure, some of my emails end up in spam for new gmail recipients, and figuring that out would be a lot of work, but still not full time work.
- op00to 3y ago
  “Some of my emails end up in spam for new gmail recipients” You don’t see a problem with this?
  - McDyver 3y ago
    I'm sure it's a problem, and the degree of "problem" depends on the importance of the mail. I think the real problem is that we are delegating to google the arbitrary decision of what is spam or not. Given that their core business in great part relies on syphoning info from users' mails, they have zero incentive to let users host their own servers and potentially bypass that data collection, and an actual incemtive to block as many domains as they can, for the sake of "safety"
  - necovek 3y ago
    I do, but spending more time ("full-time work") on it won't solve the problem, which is what I replied to. The problem seems to be that Google does not even keep a reputation for my extremely low volume mail server, and the solution might be to set up automated emailing a couple of @gmail inboxes and marking-as-not-spam all of them there. Even that wouldn't be full-time work.
DamonHD 3y ago
I've been hosting my email since the 90s, and it still basically just works. Currently sendmail and dovecot on a (off-grid) RPi that I use for a bunch of other services too.
fruktmix 3y ago
Looks like people are saying the opposite.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
foofie 3y ago
> Cannot recommend: full-time work nowadays; Interesting. Care to elaborate on what makes self-hosting email such a time-consuming task? Most of the replies you're getting seem to suggest it's not that hard to pull off.
- op00to 3y ago
  IP address reputation.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    What makes that a full-time job?
    - landgenoot 3y ago
      You need to beg Microsoft to whitelist your IP once in a while
  - foofie 3y ago
    > IP address reputation. Care to elaborate? We already had other comments stating it's not a problem. I would love to hear some first-hand accounts substantiating these claims.
    - op00to 3y ago
      Basically if someone clicks that your email is spam, your IP address gets put on a list. You have to pay or fight to get off those lists.

Cannot recommend: full-time work nowadays; maybe it tells something about email and its protocols too.

fruktmix 3y ago

Yeah, I've seen it's a big hassle but I reckon these open source alternatives helps?

jruohonen 3y ago
> Yeah, I've seen it's a big hassle A huge hassle, in fact. Even with robust exchangers, like Postix, and careful all around hardening, you are going to get a fight of your life.
- fruktmix 3y ago
  It's time new something new. Why cling the the days of yore?
- wyclif 3y ago
  Sure it's a big hassle if all you want to do is get your email. But it's still a great way to learn how to administer email if you intend to get a sysadmin or ops job.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  It's so weird how whenever this topic comes up on HN, a bunch of people appear who all say 'nope, impossible, don't even try, you'll never achieve reliable delivery to [2 big names]' Meanwhile a bunch of other people are saying 'despite many people here reporting issues, once I got the software installed, it works fine for me' Really makes you think
  - fruktmix 3y ago
    Good point. I think that one of the things that got this discussion to fire up was that I didn't say that I didn't mind my emails going to spam box (I know it's very tricky getting whitelisted). And I think, some of those who say 'nope, impossible' is referring to getting whitelisted while those who say 'works fine for me' are people fine with not being whitelisted.
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      > while those who say 'works fine for me' are people fine with not being whitelisted. I mean, my working theory here is that it's easy to get whitelisted - in fact you'll probably be whitelisted by default if you have working DMARC and DKIM etc - but companies who operate large mail installations also operate AI 'agents' that aim to drive traffic and users towards their service. That includes spreading negative sentiment i.e. convincing users on forums that setting up their own mailserver is an impossible task and that they'll never be able to achieve delivery etc. Of course I could be wrong.
      - actionfromafar 3y ago
        I think it depends a lot on also, what you use your email server for. I never had a problem, but it's for my personal mail only. Very low traffic. Meanwhile, if you use it for marketing or something, I think more things can go wrong.

necovek 3y ago

Is it? My mail continues to work after initially set up long time ago (decade or two): sure, some of my emails end up in spam for new gmail recipients, and figuring that out would be a lot of work, but still not full time work.

op00to 3y ago
“Some of my emails end up in spam for new gmail recipients” You don’t see a problem with this?
- McDyver 3y ago
  I'm sure it's a problem, and the degree of "problem" depends on the importance of the mail. I think the real problem is that we are delegating to google the arbitrary decision of what is spam or not. Given that their core business in great part relies on syphoning info from users' mails, they have zero incentive to let users host their own servers and potentially bypass that data collection, and an actual incemtive to block as many domains as they can, for the sake of "safety"
- necovek 3y ago
  I do, but spending more time ("full-time work") on it won't solve the problem, which is what I replied to. The problem seems to be that Google does not even keep a reputation for my extremely low volume mail server, and the solution might be to set up automated emailing a couple of @gmail inboxes and marking-as-not-spam all of them there. Even that wouldn't be full-time work.

DamonHD 3y ago

I've been hosting my email since the 90s, and it still basically just works. Currently sendmail and dovecot on a (off-grid) RPi that I use for a bunch of other services too.

fruktmix 3y ago

Looks like people are saying the opposite.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

foofie 3y ago

> Cannot recommend: full-time work nowadays; Interesting. Care to elaborate on what makes self-hosting email such a time-consuming task? Most of the replies you're getting seem to suggest it's not that hard to pull off.

op00to 3y ago
IP address reputation.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  What makes that a full-time job?
  - landgenoot 3y ago
    You need to beg Microsoft to whitelist your IP once in a while
- foofie 3y ago
  > IP address reputation. Care to elaborate? We already had other comments stating it's not a problem. I would love to hear some first-hand accounts substantiating these claims.
  - op00to 3y ago
    Basically if someone clicks that your email is spam, your IP address gets put on a list. You have to pay or fight to get off those lists.