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> As it was it left me scrambling with three small kids. you did not mention whether this early termination was communicated beforehand. nevertheless this per

> As it was it left me scrambling with three small kids. you did not mention whether this early termination was communicated beforehand. nevertheless this person probably never was your friend. sry

michaelt 3y ago
> nevertheless this person probably never was your friend. sry No, it's completely common for friendships to break down over business. Very few friendships are robust enough to survive one party costing the other $20,000.
- polynomial 3y ago
  So we can put a price on friendship? (/s)
  - geraldhh 3y ago
    obviously we can't. hence no money can be enough to compensate for a friendship
- xrd 3y ago
  It's wild that you said that amount because that was exactly the number. I have other friendships that have been tested for similar amounts that have survived. But, it leaves a mark. I had an ex-employee who worked for me under starvation wages in a startup long ago. He was upset about that and some tax implications, and brought it up with me. I gave him a smallish lump sum and enabled him to put a down payment on a house. I need to ask him about that, it was really brave to ask me to clean something up, and I never did that with the friend from the OP. I wonder if it would have gone differently. I'm seeing a lot of people in my circle struggling right now. I bet 2024 is going to be a bad year for friendships.
  - catlifeonmars 3y ago
    Wow. $20k seems like a paltry sum to end a friendship over.
    - dbspin 3y ago
      This forum is so out of touch with reality sometimes I'm just left blinking and shaking my head. 20,000 dollars is an enormous amount of money to a supermajority of people in the developed world. Almost half an annual wage for most industrial workers in the EU and US.
      - felixg3 3y ago
        $500,000 USD is a middle class wage in the Bay Area /s
      - geraldhh 3y ago
        thou, the question is, wheather you can buy a friendship with the money. the answer is probably, no, hence it's not worth it.
    - InitialLastName 3y ago
      That's a very privileged perspective to have... I know plenty of people for whom a sudden $20k shortfall would be existential.
      - catlifeonmars 3y ago
        I probably could have phrased it better, but my comment was taken out of context. What I mean is $20k is a paltry sum for a tech startup to screw someone over for. I don’t think it’s a small sum for most individual wage earners (especially with young children).
    - blantonl 3y ago
      I struggle to find any situation where 20k is a paltry sum
      - 3y ago
- justinclift 3y ago
  > Very few friendships are robust enough to survive one party costing the other $20,000. That probably depends on how critical that $20k is to you. If it's your only $20k, then yeah it'd be much more impactful than if it's just one of many.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    Certainly, if the loss means you encounter financial hardship, you'd be understandably resentful. But even when the loss causes little financial hardship, it could put a strain on a relationship. Imagine you invest $20k in my business and I buy a $5k industrial juicing machine for the office so my staff can have freshly squeezed orange juice. I tell you that employees expect free luxury food these days and it'll make hiring much easier. You have your doubts. If the business does well and we both make a big profit - we're both happy. You still think the juicer was a bit extravagant - but it all worked out in the end, and maybe I was right that it helped with recruitment. But if the business fails - you might resent the fact I wasted $5k of your money on a juicer.
    - jusuhi 3y ago
      [dead]
xrd 3y ago
When we started working together I suggested a six month trial, and he said let's do 12 months. That role was perfect and I had the skills for it. 6 months in his business priorities changed, so he pushed me into a new role. Then, at the ten month mark said "I just don't have any more work for you." It all depends on what is a friend. Your statement makes me question what makes a good friend. I don't really know right now. It is a lot harder to make them at 50, of that I'm sure.
- geraldhh 3y ago
  "friends are people that show up when it's not convenient for them" - my mum
brandall10 3y ago
I've seen friendships break down over one person not doing the dishes for a prolonged period. The issue with friendships is usually there's some expectation of being in it 'together' and to put in some sort of similar effort, despite the major power imbalance of employee vs. cofounder. If the founder feels their friend is for instance, giving say half the effort they are (which I feel personally is reasonable for an early stage employee, that they have a life), they may feel their friend is violating some notion of trust, despite the friend getting maybe 1% equity at best.

> As it was it left me scrambling with three small kids. you did not mention whether this early termination was communicated beforehand. nevertheless this person probably never was your friend. sry

michaelt 3y ago

> nevertheless this person probably never was your friend. sry No, it's completely common for friendships to break down over business. Very few friendships are robust enough to survive one party costing the other $20,000.

polynomial 3y ago
So we can put a price on friendship? (/s)
- geraldhh 3y ago
  obviously we can't. hence no money can be enough to compensate for a friendship
xrd 3y ago
It's wild that you said that amount because that was exactly the number. I have other friendships that have been tested for similar amounts that have survived. But, it leaves a mark. I had an ex-employee who worked for me under starvation wages in a startup long ago. He was upset about that and some tax implications, and brought it up with me. I gave him a smallish lump sum and enabled him to put a down payment on a house. I need to ask him about that, it was really brave to ask me to clean something up, and I never did that with the friend from the OP. I wonder if it would have gone differently. I'm seeing a lot of people in my circle struggling right now. I bet 2024 is going to be a bad year for friendships.
- catlifeonmars 3y ago
  Wow. $20k seems like a paltry sum to end a friendship over.
  - dbspin 3y ago
    This forum is so out of touch with reality sometimes I'm just left blinking and shaking my head. 20,000 dollars is an enormous amount of money to a supermajority of people in the developed world. Almost half an annual wage for most industrial workers in the EU and US.
    - felixg3 3y ago
      $500,000 USD is a middle class wage in the Bay Area /s
    - geraldhh 3y ago
      thou, the question is, wheather you can buy a friendship with the money. the answer is probably, no, hence it's not worth it.
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    That's a very privileged perspective to have... I know plenty of people for whom a sudden $20k shortfall would be existential.
    - catlifeonmars 3y ago
      I probably could have phrased it better, but my comment was taken out of context. What I mean is $20k is a paltry sum for a tech startup to screw someone over for. I don’t think it’s a small sum for most individual wage earners (especially with young children).
  - blantonl 3y ago
    I struggle to find any situation where 20k is a paltry sum
    - 3y ago
justinclift 3y ago
> Very few friendships are robust enough to survive one party costing the other $20,000. That probably depends on how critical that $20k is to you. If it's your only $20k, then yeah it'd be much more impactful than if it's just one of many.
- michaelt 3y ago
  Certainly, if the loss means you encounter financial hardship, you'd be understandably resentful. But even when the loss causes little financial hardship, it could put a strain on a relationship. Imagine you invest $20k in my business and I buy a $5k industrial juicing machine for the office so my staff can have freshly squeezed orange juice. I tell you that employees expect free luxury food these days and it'll make hiring much easier. You have your doubts. If the business does well and we both make a big profit - we're both happy. You still think the juicer was a bit extravagant - but it all worked out in the end, and maybe I was right that it helped with recruitment. But if the business fails - you might resent the fact I wasted $5k of your money on a juicer.
  - jusuhi 3y ago
    [dead]

xrd 3y ago

When we started working together I suggested a six month trial, and he said let's do 12 months. That role was perfect and I had the skills for it. 6 months in his business priorities changed, so he pushed me into a new role. Then, at the ten month mark said "I just don't have any more work for you." It all depends on what is a friend. Your statement makes me question what makes a good friend. I don't really know right now. It is a lot harder to make them at 50, of that I'm sure.

geraldhh 3y ago
"friends are people that show up when it's not convenient for them" - my mum

brandall10 3y ago

I've seen friendships break down over one person not doing the dishes for a prolonged period. The issue with friendships is usually there's some expectation of being in it 'together' and to put in some sort of similar effort, despite the major power imbalance of employee vs. cofounder. If the founder feels their friend is for instance, giving say half the effort they are (which I feel personally is reasonable for an early stage employee, that they have a life), they may feel their friend is violating some notion of trust, despite the friend getting maybe 1% equity at best.