3 ms·

I’ll push back on everyone here: if you’re looking for a stable living wage, you’re a fool — especially in tech. The economy is cyclical. Tech runs on speculat

I’ll push back on everyone here: if you’re looking for a stable living wage, you’re a fool — especially in tech. The economy is cyclical. Tech runs on speculation and (used to) on lax tax rules. Likewise, hiring is based on asinine processes, asinine vogues of fashion, and asinine practices. At any moment in time you could be made persona non-grata in tech. If you joined tech for the passion of if, and you’re not independently wealthy, I think that is a foolish thing — no different than doing a physics PhD while inhabiting the middle or lower classes. The most logical and rational path is to make as much money as quickly as possible, and enter the capital class. After that, do whatever you want. Anything else is just sticking your head in the ground.

TheCapeGreek 3y ago
Well put. Although, I'd say this view, much as I share it, makes it harder to find companies to work for. Especially in a tougher job market like right now. I'll do conversational technical interviews all day. Leet code and 6 interviews unrelated to the job, hell no. It's cynical, but once you've been through the meat grinder with layoffs, obsessive VC overgrowth and unfulfilled promises, I don't see another way so get to where I want to be financially without either letting go and becoming a hermit or as you say "enter the capital class".
- bruce511 3y ago
  Its fair to point out that US,VC company culture is not how most of the world works. Naturally if you revolve only in that space it may seem like it. And I can certainly see that culture leading to your viewpoint. Fortunately, my experience has not been like yours.
  - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
    I'm not from the US. I've had the experiences that led to what I posted above with South African and UK companies. It's not isolated to the US - culture bleeds across.
krisoft 3y ago
> if you’re looking for a stable living wage, you’re a fool — especially in tech I don’t understand what you are saying. I have this condition called “living”. If i am exposed to the elements for prolonged time I get cold, then sick, then I stop living. Likewise i need to eat regularly otherwise i will also stop living. In the current system we live in one meets these things by paying for them. They don’t accept IOUs, or not for long anyway. These are non-negotiable minimums I need to fulfill. Even if someone offered me a deal where they pay me a huge sum after years of hard work, and this would be a certainty but nothing before, i could not accept it because i would have no means to sustain myself for the duration. This is what bruce511 describes when they write “They want a proper salary, every month, not some mythical payday in the future.” If a place offers me both a huge payday in the future and enough money in the meantime to stay alive I may accept that depending on the amounts in question and the probabilities as i see them. This is what bruce511 talks about with “ If you can find a place that does both, thats fantastic.” > most logical and rational path is to make as much money as quickly as possible, and enter the capital class. Sounds good! I will surely do that once i can. Until then I will need that paycheck thank you very much. And call me a fool.
bruce511 3y ago
There are lots of companies put there. I'm sure a few operate as you describe. But lots and lots of tech workers go to work, get paid and repeat till they retire. So I don't think your thesis is universally true.
rsynnott 3y ago
... Wait, what on earth are you talking about? Like, assuming you're defining 'tech' as normally defined here (in practice, software engineer), there has never exactly been a huge shortage of jobs. These jobs are ~universally well above the locally prevailing living wage.
selimthegrim 3y ago
>no different than doing a physics PhD while inhabiting the middle or lower classes. such PhDs are funded last I checked.

TheCapeGreek 3y ago

Well put. Although, I'd say this view, much as I share it, makes it harder to find companies to work for. Especially in a tougher job market like right now. I'll do conversational technical interviews all day. Leet code and 6 interviews unrelated to the job, hell no. It's cynical, but once you've been through the meat grinder with layoffs, obsessive VC overgrowth and unfulfilled promises, I don't see another way so get to where I want to be financially without either letting go and becoming a hermit or as you say "enter the capital class".

bruce511 3y ago
Its fair to point out that US,VC company culture is not how most of the world works. Naturally if you revolve only in that space it may seem like it. And I can certainly see that culture leading to your viewpoint. Fortunately, my experience has not been like yours.
- TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  I'm not from the US. I've had the experiences that led to what I posted above with South African and UK companies. It's not isolated to the US - culture bleeds across.

krisoft 3y ago

> if you’re looking for a stable living wage, you’re a fool — especially in tech I don’t understand what you are saying. I have this condition called “living”. If i am exposed to the elements for prolonged time I get cold, then sick, then I stop living. Likewise i need to eat regularly otherwise i will also stop living. In the current system we live in one meets these things by paying for them. They don’t accept IOUs, or not for long anyway. These are non-negotiable minimums I need to fulfill. Even if someone offered me a deal where they pay me a huge sum after years of hard work, and this would be a certainty but nothing before, i could not accept it because i would have no means to sustain myself for the duration. This is what bruce511 describes when they write “They want a proper salary, every month, not some mythical payday in the future.” If a place offers me both a huge payday in the future and enough money in the meantime to stay alive I may accept that depending on the amounts in question and the probabilities as i see them. This is what bruce511 talks about with “ If you can find a place that does both, thats fantastic.” > most logical and rational path is to make as much money as quickly as possible, and enter the capital class. Sounds good! I will surely do that once i can. Until then I will need that paycheck thank you very much. And call me a fool.

bruce511 3y ago

There are lots of companies put there. I'm sure a few operate as you describe. But lots and lots of tech workers go to work, get paid and repeat till they retire. So I don't think your thesis is universally true.

rsynnott 3y ago

... Wait, what on earth are you talking about? Like, assuming you're defining 'tech' as normally defined here (in practice, software engineer), there has never exactly been a huge shortage of jobs. These jobs are ~universally well above the locally prevailing living wage.

selimthegrim 3y ago

>no different than doing a physics PhD while inhabiting the middle or lower classes. such PhDs are funded last I checked.