4 ms·
I'd guess a lot of people would have their own special stories to tell. However, do not underestimate the fact that some of these stories might not be easily d
by simonebrunozzi 3y ago
I'd guess a lot of people would have their own special stories to tell.
However, do not underestimate the fact that some of these stories might not be easily disclosed.
A "friend of mine", let's call it Bob, decided to leave one of the big tech companies (call it "A"), and join another big tech company (call it "B"), which offers him exactly double the salary.
Due to a very unlucky combination, a former colleague at A gives the 30-day notice, then announces it on Twitter, and then speaks with Bob, who tells him that he's just joined company B, but another company has a perfect job for his. He applies, gets his job, and tells people that Bob gave him a hand.
Company A, as nasty as these big tech firm can be, decides that Bob needs to "receive a lesson" to avoid further "bleeding", or loss of other talent. See, my friend Bob was evidently quite popular when he was at A. So, A threatens to sue Bob, and company B, for breach of whatever.
The next three months are extremely painful for Bob, who has to go through a third party security audit and let them go through all his files, emails, etc, to then end the process with a mutual agremeent in which B pays the costs of the audit, and all is clear and done. AAaaand, Bob is never to disclose anything about this, publicly, ever.
I can tell you that Bob would love to tell this story, but alas, that's life.
Back to me: I had corporate jobs for 12+ years in different countries, most notably the US, and now I run my own firm (a VC based in Venice, Italy, called Rialto). I'm so happy I don't have to deal with this kind of crap anymore.
I wish all the Bobs in the world the same joy and freedom.
- ummonk 3y agoWas this in California?
- simonebrunozzi 3y agoyes, a decade or so ago.
- supriyo-biswas 3y agoI know of a similar case, the employee in question had to go through a similar process of questioning and audits just because they switched from FAANG A to B and somehow their manager came to know about it. After that incident, many members left the team for other companies; they’ve been careful to not update their LinkedIn page with the actual company that they’re working for. When asked, they often said that they were working for a small time firm, and declined to name which one it was. As for their manager, they often claimed that they were taking a career break or would be pursuing higher education.
- NBJack 3y agoThis is sadly some of the best advice you can ever give to someone in tech: never, *ever*, disclose the place you are going to. After the fact, when you arrive, sure, consider it. Eventually. But never before, and especially not before everything is signed and the ink is dry.
- maxnevermind 3y agoIn BigTech companies that don't want you to go to competitors HR will grill you to disclose where exactly you are leaving, at least that's what I heard from others.
- Paul-Craft 3y agoWhat, you mean as part of those "exit interviews" you can just decline to schedule?
- johnnyanmac 3y agoI mean, what are they going to do? Fire you if you do not disclose your next workplace?
- mlrtime 3y agoI'm a bit surprised to learn this isn't common knowledge. Don't say anything when you're leaving. Don't say where you're going, do NOT do the exit interview (Or do it but give the most generic positive answers only). Give 2 weeks and comply with all the work requests your manager gives you to exit clean. You might think it is sad it has to be this way, but this is business. You aren't breaking up with a romantic partner. There is only risk but disclosing more than needed. Finance people have known this for a very long time.
- emeril 3y agoyeah, I'm a finance guy, I never tell anyone where I'm going for a while out an abundance of caution though I'm no where near important enough for anyone to care lol only once did I wait out a formal non-compete for a few months in my youth though it was well worth it...
- neilv 3y agoThat sounds awful. I'm guessing Bob had signed some kind of employment agreement that included a clause about not being involved in other employees leaving? When I was trying to help draft a fair (startup) employment agreement document, I tried to ask HN about some of the clauses I'd seen (including one like might've bit Bob), but the post got zero traction. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26016445 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26016445
- mewziq 3y agoI took the Tim Leary approach. I’m so happy I don’t have to deal with the crap Bob or Simone deals with.
- paulddraper 3y agoBig tech or otherwise, non-solicits are no joke. Be aware of them, and their enforcement in your jurisdiction.
- wdr1 3y agoIANAL but my understanding is that they're generally not enforceable in California?
- paulddraper 3y agoYes, California and Illinois don't enforce non-solicits. Everywhere else in the US does. Sometimes limited, e.g. to a year.
- lmm 3y ago> AAaaand, Bob is never to disclose anything about this, publicly, ever. That kind of provision is usually unenforcable if not illegal. (Bob speaking of it would probably risk attracting meritless lawsuit, but frankly meritless lawsuits are a fact of life and us comfortable tech folks ought to be willing to brave them for the sake of society)
- felsokning 3y ago>That kind of provision is usually unenforcable if not illegal. I can emphatically tell you that I have a mutual non-disparagement clause with [REDACTED]; _and_ that these clauses seem to be routine enough to be included with most "resolution contracts", at least in Europe (<your favorite search engine here> results seem to indicate that these clauses are very popular in Europe). Most people don't have the equivalent resources (that business have) to fight these clauses; especially, where the resolution - itself - may haven taken so long that the person is essentially "glad" to have some modicum of restitution and sense of resolution. This means/infers that these clauses (generally) are de facto enforced by "better safe than sorry" scenarios. (Generally, whether they're legal and enforceable comes down to the clauses first having been breached and, then, being challenged in court. This means/infers effort, time, and money that the people these clauses tend to - generally - target don't have.)
- azmodeus 3y agoOne of the good reasons to be part of a union is to pool legal resources for such a scenario
- mlrtime 3y agoPerhaps, but I doubt any of this [and the article] happens in Union jobs. This is usually only for very competitive high skilled jobs which unions don't attract [in the US]. So I'm afraid Unions would not be any help here.
- ram_rar 3y agoI've observed this scenario occur frequently. The lesson I've learned is to remain silent until your new job in the new company stabilizes, and then, after some time, share the news with the world. This gives you 2 things 1. Time to acclimate to a new company. If things don't go as planned, there's always mostly the option to boomerang. 2. The likelihood of your previous employer imparting a 'lesson' significantly decreases.
- gnopgnip 3y agoIf this was in CA, since 2022 non disclosure agreements that restrict employees from disclosing mistreatment in the workplace are illegal. This applies retroactively.
- Paul-Craft 3y agoIf it's anywhere in the US, the NLRB recently ruled NDAs as part of separation agreements to be unenforceable.
- loevborg 3y agoOMG a VC in Venice. Do you have an actual office there? I'm jealous. Venice was the original Silicon Valley. Aldus Manutius's print shop is an example of Venetian high tech. A good proportion of Europe's books were printed in Venice in the early 1500s.
- simonebrunozzi 3y agoYes, I do. Love it here. And yes, lots going in Venice 4-5 centuries ago.
- dr-detroit 3y ago[dead]
- charles_f 3y ago> Bob is never to disclose anything about this, publicly, ever You got to appreciate here that not only A got their investigation done, paid for, and then on top of that didn't want the bad reputation of being a shit employer. Way for them to enjoy both their cake and the money for their cake!