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We could have prevented at least a million Russian/Ukrainian deaths when the peace accord in Istanbul was nearly ratified. Then Boris Johnson marched in and scu

We could have prevented at least a million Russian/Ukrainian deaths when the peace accord in Istanbul was nearly ratified. Then Boris Johnson marched in and scuttled the peace process. https://www.aaronmate.net/p/ukraines-top-negotiator-confirms https://www.aaronmate.net/p/ukraines-top-negotiator-confirms Ukraine’s top negotiator confirms US-UK sabotaged peace deal with Russia Now with this drone attack and likes of Lindsey frothing at the mouth for one more war, I am not sure how long and how many wars the empire can wage at the same time. But I guess we are about to find out.

scotty79 3y ago
> Russians “were prepared to end the war if we agreed to – as Finland once did – neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO.” Ukraine would never agree to that. There'd be literally nothing stoping Russia from resuming war at their convenience. All the declarations of Russia made thus far about Ukraine has been broken.
- ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
  You really think declaring neutrality and abandoning NATO was far worse than the current war? >There'd be literally nothing stoping Russia from resuming war at their convenience The worst peace is better than the best war.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > The worst peace is better than the best war. I presume that's a quote from Neville Chamberlain?
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      I think even Neville wasn't this dumb: he wanted peace with Hitler, for a time, because he knew the UK just wasn't ready for a full-scale war and needed time to prepare.
  - analognoise 3y ago
    > The worst peace is better than the best war. I’m glad the Nazis didn’t win and I don’t live under what they would call peace.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    There wasn't option for peace for Putin. The choice was either war when Russia is weak (now) or war when Russia is stronger (later). In the meantime Ukraine would be prevented from getting any stronger by recieving weapons or forming alliances.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      No, there was the option of not having any war at all, and just being friendly with their neighbors. How is that not an option? Wow, the Putin boot-licking here is incredible.
      - scotty79 3y ago
        I guess my comment was misunderstood. What I meant was that there wasn't option for Ukraine to have peace, because Puting doesn't want peace. Any peace achieved by appeasing him would be temporary and serve only to strengthen him for the next round of this war.
        shiroiuma 3y ago
        Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree completely.
bearjaws 3y ago
Yeah the peace deal ~totally~ would have saved Ukraine from Russia.
ceejayoz 3y ago
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-offered-end-war-if-ukraine-dropped-nato-bid-kyiv-official-1847373 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-offered-end-war-if-ukraine-d... Doesn't sound like much sabotaging was necessary. > Arakhamia said changing Ukraine's intentions to join NATO would require an amendment to the country's constitution since Kyiv's parliament voted to adopt an amendment in February 2019 that stated Ukraine's goal of becoming a member of both NATO and the European Union. Arakhamia also said that Ukrainian officials did not trust Russia to uphold their end of the bargain. Russia was, after all, promising not to invade Ukraine just weeks before they went ahead and did exactly that. Trust in Russian promises a few weeks later was justifiably... not high. https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-ukraine-can-diplomacy-help-avoid-a-military-confrontation https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-... > Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov emerged from the nearly eight hours of talks and declared, "There are no plans or intentions to attack Ukraine." He went on to say, "There is no reason to fear some kind of escalatory scenario."
bryanlarsen 3y ago
Russia was demanding Ukraine dearm. Ukraine didn't need any help to turn it down.
- hollerith 3y ago
  Russia made similar demands on Finland and Austria during the Cold War, and those 2 countries complied, and I'd rather live in Finland or Austria during any 2-year interval during the Cold War than in Ukraine these last 2 years. The point is that maybe fighting was the right choice for Kiev to make on behalf of its constituents, but it wasn't obviously the right choice, like you seem to think it was.
  - mopsi 3y ago
    > Russia made similar demands on Finland and Austria during the Cold War, and those 2 countries complied Not only those two. Russia also made such demands to southern neighbours of Finland: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. When they complied, Russians invaded each country, murdered their leaders, sent tens of thousands of top public officials, doctors, lawyers, engineers and other people with leadership skills along with their entire families to die in concentration camps in Siberian wilderness, and established repressive Russification policies to wipe out local population and their culture over time. Those policies lasted until the USSR fell in 1991. Of them, Latvia was hit the hardest. By the time the USSR fell, Latvians were about to become a minority in their own country. And to say that Finland "complied" is a bit generous. Finland and Russia fought two wars during WWII, which resulted in Russians failing to conquer Finland. Russia had even established a puppet government for Finland like they had one prepared for Ukraine with Medvedchuk in 2022, but disbanded it after the failure to capture Finland. Winter War was such a spectacular disaster for Russians that to this day, Finns hold a mythical reputation in Russian collective consciousness. As to constituents, the constant stream of information about crimes against local population and systematic destruction of Ukrainian culture in the parts of Ukraine occupied since 2014 leaves little doubt what kind of peace Russia is offering.
    - hollerith 3y ago
foogazi 3y ago
> We could have prevented at least a million Russian/Ukrainian deaths when the peace accord in Istanbul was nearly ratified. On February 24, 2022 only 1 country could have postponed the war
oneshtein 3y ago
Sadly, Russia don't want to retreat from Ukraine, so millions of Russians will die anyway, because there is no other option to force them out.

scotty79 3y ago

> Russians “were prepared to end the war if we agreed to – as Finland once did – neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO.” Ukraine would never agree to that. There'd be literally nothing stoping Russia from resuming war at their convenience. All the declarations of Russia made thus far about Ukraine has been broken.

ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
You really think declaring neutrality and abandoning NATO was far worse than the current war? >There'd be literally nothing stoping Russia from resuming war at their convenience The worst peace is better than the best war.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > The worst peace is better than the best war. I presume that's a quote from Neville Chamberlain?
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    I think even Neville wasn't this dumb: he wanted peace with Hitler, for a time, because he knew the UK just wasn't ready for a full-scale war and needed time to prepare.
- analognoise 3y ago
  > The worst peace is better than the best war. I’m glad the Nazis didn’t win and I don’t live under what they would call peace.
- scotty79 3y ago
  There wasn't option for peace for Putin. The choice was either war when Russia is weak (now) or war when Russia is stronger (later). In the meantime Ukraine would be prevented from getting any stronger by recieving weapons or forming alliances.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    No, there was the option of not having any war at all, and just being friendly with their neighbors. How is that not an option? Wow, the Putin boot-licking here is incredible.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      I guess my comment was misunderstood. What I meant was that there wasn't option for Ukraine to have peace, because Puting doesn't want peace. Any peace achieved by appeasing him would be temporary and serve only to strengthen him for the next round of this war.
      - shiroiuma 3y ago
        Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree completely.

bearjaws 3y ago

Yeah the peace deal ~totally~ would have saved Ukraine from Russia.

ceejayoz 3y ago

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-offered-end-war-if-ukraine-dropped-nato-bid-kyiv-official-1847373 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-offered-end-war-if-ukraine-d... Doesn't sound like much sabotaging was necessary. > Arakhamia said changing Ukraine's intentions to join NATO would require an amendment to the country's constitution since Kyiv's parliament voted to adopt an amendment in February 2019 that stated Ukraine's goal of becoming a member of both NATO and the European Union. Arakhamia also said that Ukrainian officials did not trust Russia to uphold their end of the bargain. Russia was, after all, promising not to invade Ukraine just weeks before they went ahead and did exactly that. Trust in Russian promises a few weeks later was justifiably... not high. https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-ukraine-can-diplomacy-help-avoid-a-military-confrontation https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-... > Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov emerged from the nearly eight hours of talks and declared, "There are no plans or intentions to attack Ukraine." He went on to say, "There is no reason to fear some kind of escalatory scenario."

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Russia was demanding Ukraine dearm. Ukraine didn't need any help to turn it down.

hollerith 3y ago
Russia made similar demands on Finland and Austria during the Cold War, and those 2 countries complied, and I'd rather live in Finland or Austria during any 2-year interval during the Cold War than in Ukraine these last 2 years. The point is that maybe fighting was the right choice for Kiev to make on behalf of its constituents, but it wasn't obviously the right choice, like you seem to think it was.
- mopsi 3y ago
  > Russia made similar demands on Finland and Austria during the Cold War, and those 2 countries complied Not only those two. Russia also made such demands to southern neighbours of Finland: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. When they complied, Russians invaded each country, murdered their leaders, sent tens of thousands of top public officials, doctors, lawyers, engineers and other people with leadership skills along with their entire families to die in concentration camps in Siberian wilderness, and established repressive Russification policies to wipe out local population and their culture over time. Those policies lasted until the USSR fell in 1991. Of them, Latvia was hit the hardest. By the time the USSR fell, Latvians were about to become a minority in their own country. And to say that Finland "complied" is a bit generous. Finland and Russia fought two wars during WWII, which resulted in Russians failing to conquer Finland. Russia had even established a puppet government for Finland like they had one prepared for Ukraine with Medvedchuk in 2022, but disbanded it after the failure to capture Finland. Winter War was such a spectacular disaster for Russians that to this day, Finns hold a mythical reputation in Russian collective consciousness. As to constituents, the constant stream of information about crimes against local population and systematic destruction of Ukrainian culture in the parts of Ukraine occupied since 2014 leaves little doubt what kind of peace Russia is offering.
  - hollerith 3y ago

foogazi 3y ago

> We could have prevented at least a million Russian/Ukrainian deaths when the peace accord in Istanbul was nearly ratified. On February 24, 2022 only 1 country could have postponed the war

oneshtein 3y ago

Sadly, Russia don't want to retreat from Ukraine, so millions of Russians will die anyway, because there is no other option to force them out.