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Speaking of Apple taking a cut, does anyone know what kind of cut Spotify takes from artists? > Spotify pays artists between $0.003 - $0.005 per stream on aver

Speaking of Apple taking a cut, does anyone know what kind of cut Spotify takes from artists? > Spotify pays artists between $0.003 - $0.005 per stream on average. That works out as an approx revenue split of 70/30 - so that's 70% to the artist/rights holders and 30% to Spotify. So Spotify takes ~30% cut?

sigmoid10 3y ago
How do you figure out the revenue split if you only know what Spotify pays Artists per stream but not what they actually earn themselves? Lets say I pay $10 per month and listen to 2000 songs. Then they would earn $0.005 per song on average. If they pay everyone $0.005, their cut would be zero. If they pay $0.003, their cut would be 40%.
- cardy31 3y ago
  I believe the above post is quoting Spotify, not making a guess.
  - sigmoid10 3y ago
    Spotify has not publicly released any numbers of that kind. It seems the post is quoting some other article [1] that not only doesn't answer my question but even admits that the given numbers are mere speculation. So there is zero basis for the statement in the post above. [1] https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-much-does-spotify-pay-per-stream/#:~:text=Spotify%20pays%20artists%20between%20%240.003,holders%20and%2030%25%20to%20Spotify https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-much-does-spotify-pay-per....
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      The New York Times seems to claim a 70/30 split [1]. However the devil is in the detail as there are plenty of claims from artists of hundreds of thousands of plays resulting in a few dollars being earned. It may be that the split is correct, but that high profile artists are getting a higher rate per stream? Others claim Spotify is great for being discovered [2] and that this is where its value lies for them (as artists). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/technology/streaming-music-economics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/technology/streaming-musi... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/13v4i4k/spotify_pays_me_24k_usdmonth_as_an_artist_and_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/13v4i4k/spotify_pa...
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  I agree with your question, I googled what percent cut Spotify takes, and that was the google provided answer. I think it's right to question my quote. It seemed very much in line with every other market place, so I didn't question it too much. In an effort to be more accurate, this is the official financial report from Spotify to shareholders: https://s29.q4cdn.com/175625835/files/doc_financials/2023/q3/787b611a-8789-4a1a-86de-055ba2ade19a.pdf https://s29.q4cdn.com/175625835/files/doc_financials/2023/q3... It claims $3,357 million in revenue, and it claims that revenue cost them $2,472 million. Which implies they are taking at least a 26% cut. I am a financial layman, so perhaps someone with more expertise could correct me if my understanding is wrong.
  - sigmoid10 3y ago
    >Which implies they are taking at least a 26% cut No, that implies they get at most a 26% cut. But cost of revenue includes everything needed to deliver the service. That includes infrastructure, maintenance, all the people working on that stuff, bandwidth, etc. So the actual cut must be much lower.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - hayst4ck 3y ago
      Money from subscriptions can go to Spotify or artists. If money is going to Spotify for profit or services, that is their cut. That is the amount of money taken from artists to provide the service of Spotify. Any money in cost of revenue not going to artists for the purposes of running infra/maintenance, etc. is part of Spotify's cut. Therefore 26% is a lower bound and spotify may be taking more than 26% of the total money earned by subscriptions. We can assume that all gross profit did not go to artists, which means gross profit is the lower bound of Spotify's cut. I think you are asking what percent of profit do artists get, while I am asking what percent of income do artists get. I think when comparing this to the Apple App store. Apple is taking a 30% cut of income, not a 30% cut of profits, so asking what cut of income spotify is taking is appropriate.
CharlesW 3y ago
Here's a U.S. music streaming calculator created by a company that claims to have data: https://www.manatt.com/music-streaming-royalty-calculator https://www.manatt.com/music-streaming-royalty-calculator > So Spotify takes ~30% cut? According to the calculator, for 10M streams, Spotify pays the label (really, the sound recording owner) $38,917 (0.38¢/stream), while Apple pays $66,840 (0.668¢/stream). In the "1M Streams" charts on that page, Spotify keeps 50% of the total and pays creators/rights-holders the rest, while Apple keeps 29%.
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  I think this is a very compelling case against Apple, and this is a perfect example of lies, damn lies, and statistics. Spotify's pie is: $7,631 Apple's pie is: $10,711 Spotify's pie is 28% smaller than Apple's which is suspiciously close to the app store fee. The way this information is displayed feels very dishonest to me. The display implies Apple is better for artists, but the reality this displays when analyzed for more than how it is presented is that apple is using anti-competitive practices to unfairly offer artists a better deal. Both pies being displayed the same size, despite that one is physically larger, hides relevant information. I think owning the app store and having an app that competes with other apps on it is a clear and odious conflict of interest. If that were the main argument against apple, I would be a strong supporter of Apple targeted regulation. Apple's cut is fine, being able to take that cut directly from your competition offering you a clear and unfair competitive advantage is not.
  - votepaunchy 3y ago
    There is nothing here about App Store fees. Spotify has a smaller pie due to their millions of unpaid listeners, whereas Apple only has free trials.
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      > Spotify has a smaller pie due to their millions of unpaid listeners… FWIW, in that case Spotify is still paid, just by advertisers.

sigmoid10 3y ago

How do you figure out the revenue split if you only know what Spotify pays Artists per stream but not what they actually earn themselves? Lets say I pay $10 per month and listen to 2000 songs. Then they would earn $0.005 per song on average. If they pay everyone $0.005, their cut would be zero. If they pay $0.003, their cut would be 40%.

cardy31 3y ago
I believe the above post is quoting Spotify, not making a guess.
- sigmoid10 3y ago
  Spotify has not publicly released any numbers of that kind. It seems the post is quoting some other article [1] that not only doesn't answer my question but even admits that the given numbers are mere speculation. So there is zero basis for the statement in the post above. [1] https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-much-does-spotify-pay-per-stream/#:~:text=Spotify%20pays%20artists%20between%20%240.003,holders%20and%2030%25%20to%20Spotify https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-much-does-spotify-pay-per....
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    The New York Times seems to claim a 70/30 split [1]. However the devil is in the detail as there are plenty of claims from artists of hundreds of thousands of plays resulting in a few dollars being earned. It may be that the split is correct, but that high profile artists are getting a higher rate per stream? Others claim Spotify is great for being discovered [2] and that this is where its value lies for them (as artists). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/technology/streaming-music-economics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/technology/streaming-musi... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/13v4i4k/spotify_pays_me_24k_usdmonth_as_an_artist_and_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/13v4i4k/spotify_pa...
hayst4ck 3y ago
I agree with your question, I googled what percent cut Spotify takes, and that was the google provided answer. I think it's right to question my quote. It seemed very much in line with every other market place, so I didn't question it too much. In an effort to be more accurate, this is the official financial report from Spotify to shareholders: https://s29.q4cdn.com/175625835/files/doc_financials/2023/q3/787b611a-8789-4a1a-86de-055ba2ade19a.pdf https://s29.q4cdn.com/175625835/files/doc_financials/2023/q3... It claims $3,357 million in revenue, and it claims that revenue cost them $2,472 million. Which implies they are taking at least a 26% cut. I am a financial layman, so perhaps someone with more expertise could correct me if my understanding is wrong.
- sigmoid10 3y ago
  >Which implies they are taking at least a 26% cut No, that implies they get at most a 26% cut. But cost of revenue includes everything needed to deliver the service. That includes infrastructure, maintenance, all the people working on that stuff, bandwidth, etc. So the actual cut must be much lower.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hayst4ck 3y ago
    Money from subscriptions can go to Spotify or artists. If money is going to Spotify for profit or services, that is their cut. That is the amount of money taken from artists to provide the service of Spotify. Any money in cost of revenue not going to artists for the purposes of running infra/maintenance, etc. is part of Spotify's cut. Therefore 26% is a lower bound and spotify may be taking more than 26% of the total money earned by subscriptions. We can assume that all gross profit did not go to artists, which means gross profit is the lower bound of Spotify's cut. I think you are asking what percent of profit do artists get, while I am asking what percent of income do artists get. I think when comparing this to the Apple App store. Apple is taking a 30% cut of income, not a 30% cut of profits, so asking what cut of income spotify is taking is appropriate.

CharlesW 3y ago

Here's a U.S. music streaming calculator created by a company that claims to have data: https://www.manatt.com/music-streaming-royalty-calculator https://www.manatt.com/music-streaming-royalty-calculator > So Spotify takes ~30% cut? According to the calculator, for 10M streams, Spotify pays the label (really, the sound recording owner) $38,917 (0.38¢/stream), while Apple pays $66,840 (0.668¢/stream). In the "1M Streams" charts on that page, Spotify keeps 50% of the total and pays creators/rights-holders the rest, while Apple keeps 29%.

hayst4ck 3y ago
I think this is a very compelling case against Apple, and this is a perfect example of lies, damn lies, and statistics. Spotify's pie is: $7,631 Apple's pie is: $10,711 Spotify's pie is 28% smaller than Apple's which is suspiciously close to the app store fee. The way this information is displayed feels very dishonest to me. The display implies Apple is better for artists, but the reality this displays when analyzed for more than how it is presented is that apple is using anti-competitive practices to unfairly offer artists a better deal. Both pies being displayed the same size, despite that one is physically larger, hides relevant information. I think owning the app store and having an app that competes with other apps on it is a clear and odious conflict of interest. If that were the main argument against apple, I would be a strong supporter of Apple targeted regulation. Apple's cut is fine, being able to take that cut directly from your competition offering you a clear and unfair competitive advantage is not.
- votepaunchy 3y ago
  There is nothing here about App Store fees. Spotify has a smaller pie due to their millions of unpaid listeners, whereas Apple only has free trials.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    > Spotify has a smaller pie due to their millions of unpaid listeners… FWIW, in that case Spotify is still paid, just by advertisers.