>> I think ultimately the issue here is we won't ever come to an agreement of what is "basic effort." Yeah - probably just talking past each other... :-D >>

>> I think ultimately the issue here is we won't ever come to an agreement of what is "basic effort." Yeah - probably just talking past each other... :-D >> I personally hit the former extreme a lot due to early careers outright refusing to give me help... Wow - sorry you had such a shitty introduction (see below) >> But just because I suffered doesn't mean I want everyone else coming in to go through the same things FWiW, I've never actually seen seniors want that either. Generally, when I've seen people 'setup to fail' - its been a management decision (didn't like your tie, had to reduce head count etc.). I bet the IT guys in your first gig WANTED to help, but as you said, they were told not to.. Seniors WANT juniors to succeed - if only for selfish reasons: if a junior 'fails' - the seniors will probably have to clean up the mess, but if a junior 'succeeds' it allows the work to be spread out across another person. Also, the juniors might have some ideas about smoothing out rough spots, improving on-boarding, etc. Bonus points if they can help clear the 'landmines' (I've actually seen juniors do that - fresh set of eyes and all that..) So naturally, you want juniors to succeed. As you mentioned above, I think it probably just comes down to what is 'basic effort' and what does it mean to respect people's time. As you said "co-workers remember how you made them feel" - Juniors that make you feel like they don't respect your time definitely get remembered too. P.S. - I _hate_ being the 'smartest guy in the room'...I love working places where there's lots of people to learn from and I definitely ask a lot of 'stupid questions'...But I do try to do initial research before asking. Anyway, Glad that first gig didn't sour you on the whole career :-)