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It's not the default for anyone. Normal people are not interested in OSes, they just want to look at their emails or watch youtube. If most laptops were sold wi

It's not the default for anyone. Normal people are not interested in OSes, they just want to look at their emails or watch youtube. If most laptops were sold with e.g. Ubuntu, I'm fairly sure few people would bother switching them to Windows. Unlike the prevalent opinion here, I disagree that modern GNU/Linux distros have bad UI/UX. Once set up, the average person is very well served by modern GNU/Linux. I installed Kubuntu for my parents (they're in their 60s, very non-technical people) and they've been using it no problem for 4 years now. My father even reinstalled it from scratch himself after their SSD died by just following the installer. I almost never get any technical support requests from them either.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Right. I stopped computer tinkering a long time ago. I installed Biolinux on my laptop back in 2013, needed some help when transitioning to Ubuntu, and have used the terminal so few times that my entire .zsh_history is in some 45153 bytes. It works fine for everything personal I use it for. I use a Windows work computer for the rest.
yoavm 3y ago
This. People don't switch to Linux mainly because people don't switch operating systems.
- woleium 3y ago
  many don’t even know that it’s possible, or what the delineation between os and application is.
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
  People use computers to accomplish tasks. Not to use operating systems, not to use applications, just to accomplish tasks. Often those tasks involve a particular workflow they know, so alternative applications must support the exact same workflow to be acceptable. Linux usually has different workflows, and thus can't accomplish the same tasks. It can often accomplish similar tasks, but that's not usually good enough to be worth the effort of switching away from a default. The alternative has to be significantly better than the original. Some tasks also have network effects, e.g. online games. Alternatives that aren't compatible with the existing network are useless. Most people don't care about the OS. They don't really care about the particular applications. People care about the tasks they want to accomplish & the workflows they know to accomplish them.
  - yoavm 3y ago
    Most of my friends use Google Docs for writing stuff, Gmail for emailing, Whatsapp Web for chatting, YouTube and Netflix for videos, Spotify for music, and Chrome for browsing the web. This is literally 95% of the way they use their computer, and these things work exactly the same in Linux.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
      Sure. But Linux doesn't do any of that any better than another OS, and the remaining 5% there's a decent chance it disrupts their workflow, and is thus worse. The effort of switching alone is a substantial downside, so Linux needs some substantial advantage towards accomplishing a desired task to get people to switch from other OSes. For developers, Linux is often worth switching to because so many dev tools have first-class Linux support, or are Linux-only. Most other domains aren't like that.
knightoffaith 3y ago
Yeah, I think this is right. GNU/Linux works perfectly fine for the normal person's use case - the main issue is that it's not the default, and switching is a pain. Really, GNU/Linux should be the default. People have this impression that Windows and MacOS is for normal people but GNU/Linux is a strange specialized OS for techies, but really, it's the opposite. The average person really just needs to be able to launch a browser (which gets you email, social media, cloud storage, document editing/management, whatever else). GNU/Linux is perfectly fine for that, and may even be the most sensible solution. It's actually Windows and MacOS that are the "specialist" operating systems - when you really need to use specialized software like Photoshop, Logic Pro, or whatever else, and when the Linux/browser alternatives aren't good enough for you.
- appplication 3y ago
  > the main issue is that it's not the default, and switching is a pain. I would disagree. The main issue is basic driver incompatibility and in depth, dev-level debugging required when something goes wrong rather than just visiting the Apple or Microsoft forum. I will say this is less of an issue than it was 10 years ago, but it’s certainly not a non-issue. If you’re average Joe looking to switch this is a huge impediment.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    It's not necessarily Apple/Microsoft forums specifically either. I note that Windows users and nerds are generally much more open to just helping people overcome whatever problem they're having in the simplest and easiest way possible. Linux users, and neckbeards in particular, on the other hand are generally more concerned about ordering people having problems to do things the One True Way(tm). This condescending attitude is by far the thing that holds back wider Linux adoption the most; most people don't have time to be talked down by some neckbeard when Windows users will sympathize and happily lend a hand. I can't and won't speak to MacOS users because MacOS, within the confines of the One Apple Way(tm), has always Just Worked(tm) which is by far its strongest selling point.
  - number6 3y ago

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

Right. I stopped computer tinkering a long time ago. I installed Biolinux on my laptop back in 2013, needed some help when transitioning to Ubuntu, and have used the terminal so few times that my entire .zsh_history is in some 45153 bytes. It works fine for everything personal I use it for. I use a Windows work computer for the rest.

yoavm 3y ago

This. People don't switch to Linux mainly because people don't switch operating systems.

woleium 3y ago
many don’t even know that it’s possible, or what the delineation between os and application is.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
People use computers to accomplish tasks. Not to use operating systems, not to use applications, just to accomplish tasks. Often those tasks involve a particular workflow they know, so alternative applications must support the exact same workflow to be acceptable. Linux usually has different workflows, and thus can't accomplish the same tasks. It can often accomplish similar tasks, but that's not usually good enough to be worth the effort of switching away from a default. The alternative has to be significantly better than the original. Some tasks also have network effects, e.g. online games. Alternatives that aren't compatible with the existing network are useless. Most people don't care about the OS. They don't really care about the particular applications. People care about the tasks they want to accomplish & the workflows they know to accomplish them.
- yoavm 3y ago
  Most of my friends use Google Docs for writing stuff, Gmail for emailing, Whatsapp Web for chatting, YouTube and Netflix for videos, Spotify for music, and Chrome for browsing the web. This is literally 95% of the way they use their computer, and these things work exactly the same in Linux.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
    Sure. But Linux doesn't do any of that any better than another OS, and the remaining 5% there's a decent chance it disrupts their workflow, and is thus worse. The effort of switching alone is a substantial downside, so Linux needs some substantial advantage towards accomplishing a desired task to get people to switch from other OSes. For developers, Linux is often worth switching to because so many dev tools have first-class Linux support, or are Linux-only. Most other domains aren't like that.

knightoffaith 3y ago

Yeah, I think this is right. GNU/Linux works perfectly fine for the normal person's use case - the main issue is that it's not the default, and switching is a pain. Really, GNU/Linux should be the default. People have this impression that Windows and MacOS is for normal people but GNU/Linux is a strange specialized OS for techies, but really, it's the opposite. The average person really just needs to be able to launch a browser (which gets you email, social media, cloud storage, document editing/management, whatever else). GNU/Linux is perfectly fine for that, and may even be the most sensible solution. It's actually Windows and MacOS that are the "specialist" operating systems - when you really need to use specialized software like Photoshop, Logic Pro, or whatever else, and when the Linux/browser alternatives aren't good enough for you.

appplication 3y ago
> the main issue is that it's not the default, and switching is a pain. I would disagree. The main issue is basic driver incompatibility and in depth, dev-level debugging required when something goes wrong rather than just visiting the Apple or Microsoft forum. I will say this is less of an issue than it was 10 years ago, but it’s certainly not a non-issue. If you’re average Joe looking to switch this is a huge impediment.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  It's not necessarily Apple/Microsoft forums specifically either. I note that Windows users and nerds are generally much more open to just helping people overcome whatever problem they're having in the simplest and easiest way possible. Linux users, and neckbeards in particular, on the other hand are generally more concerned about ordering people having problems to do things the One True Way(tm). This condescending attitude is by far the thing that holds back wider Linux adoption the most; most people don't have time to be talked down by some neckbeard when Windows users will sympathize and happily lend a hand. I can't and won't speak to MacOS users because MacOS, within the confines of the One Apple Way(tm), has always Just Worked(tm) which is by far its strongest selling point.
- number6 3y ago