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> We usually clock between four and six hours a day, and most of us don’t even get to the office before noon. Realllly interested to hear more about this. Can

> We usually clock between four and six hours a day, and most of us don’t even get to the office before noon. Realllly interested to hear more about this. Can anybody from Flow elaborate? How well does this work? How did 4-6 hours come about? Why not 5-7 hrs? Or 3-5? How do salaries work - is everybody full time? > We believe in working smart, not hard, and having lives outside the office. Why can't you work smart and hard? Couldn't you accomplish in 8 hours what other teams could accomplish in 8-16 hrs? Please share :)

TamDenholm 14y ago
One of the problems with old school thinking is that working hard means working long, which is absolute rubbish. Personally I can't be productive for 8 hours a day and I'm pretty sure nobody can, all the time you're not being productive you're generally wasting time by making coffee, checking emails, attending meetings etc. So why not actually just work the time that you're productive and then go and enjoy the rest of the time instead of just using up time doing things of little consequence. That's working smart, IMO working longer just for the sake of it is working stupid because long and constant working hours aren't just wasted time, they negatively impact the time you wouldve been productive.
- kevincennis 14y ago
  Amen to that. I imagine the percentage of developers who can write legitimately good code for 8 hours a day is pretty low.
- guynamedloren 14y ago
  I totally agree with you. I feel like I can produce a huge amount of good work over a 4-6 hour period of 100% focus; significantly more (and better) work than I can accomplish over an 8-10 hour period littered with distractions/meetings/etc. I was just hoping somebody from Flow could weigh in with a first-hand account. Since everybody obviously has different work needs/environments for productivity, I was wondering how they managed to build an office culture that fosters these types of work habits.
- japhyr 14y ago
  This is why some of us can reasonably hope to launch a startup on the side while working a full time job. We're not putting in two 8-hour days, we're putting in 8-hour days at a full time job, and then putting in a couple highly productive hours on our own project every night or early every morning. I'm pretty sure there are a good number of people on here who are splitting their days like this.
- nhangen 14y ago
  I don't think it's 'old school' to work long hours. In my case, it's because I enjoy my work and I don't mind putting in 60 hour weeks. That said, if I were on your team, I would love having the extra time away from work.
bentlegen 14y ago
NOTE: The people behind Flow are Metalab, a well-respected UI/UX agency. Most of the Flow team is also cross-listed on Metalab's team page (http://metalabdesign.com/about-us http://metalabdesign.com/about-us). What does that mean? Perhaps they're only working 4-6 hours on Flow, and 2-3 hours for client work for Metalab. Who knows? I think there's a lot left out of this story.
noonespecial 14y ago
One of the first bosses (entrepreneurs) I ever worked for used to pride himself on how "well balanced" his work and life were (and that of those of his early partners as well). They'd roll up about noon and were out buy 4:30. That all changed once they hired their first devs, for actual money. Once he was paying "$5000 per month for you" you damn well better be in by 9 and stay till 6. I wonder how their culture will change when they start paying big bucks for real employees.
edbyrne 14y ago
I love all this talk about hours worked as if it's not a proxy for achievement - of course it is. Will weak workers achieve great things in 6 hours or 16 hours? No. Will over-achievers do brilliant things in 6 hours instead of 16 - depends on your definition. Hours worked, working smart and all this BS doesn't matter. What matters is the size and complexity of the problem your working on, and how many problems you have to solve to move the needle on your goals. So if you can do a great 30 hour week a move the needle - lucky you! Some people have to pour in 80-100 hour weeks just move the needle because what they are working on just cant be done 'smarter'. I think the discussion needs to move from hours worked and quality of hours worked, back to quality of people : and hopefully the right people will work the right amount of time to productively deliver whats needed.

TamDenholm 14y ago

One of the problems with old school thinking is that working hard means working long, which is absolute rubbish. Personally I can't be productive for 8 hours a day and I'm pretty sure nobody can, all the time you're not being productive you're generally wasting time by making coffee, checking emails, attending meetings etc. So why not actually just work the time that you're productive and then go and enjoy the rest of the time instead of just using up time doing things of little consequence. That's working smart, IMO working longer just for the sake of it is working stupid because long and constant working hours aren't just wasted time, they negatively impact the time you wouldve been productive.

kevincennis 14y ago
Amen to that. I imagine the percentage of developers who can write legitimately good code for 8 hours a day is pretty low.
guynamedloren 14y ago
I totally agree with you. I feel like I can produce a huge amount of good work over a 4-6 hour period of 100% focus; significantly more (and better) work than I can accomplish over an 8-10 hour period littered with distractions/meetings/etc. I was just hoping somebody from Flow could weigh in with a first-hand account. Since everybody obviously has different work needs/environments for productivity, I was wondering how they managed to build an office culture that fosters these types of work habits.
japhyr 14y ago
This is why some of us can reasonably hope to launch a startup on the side while working a full time job. We're not putting in two 8-hour days, we're putting in 8-hour days at a full time job, and then putting in a couple highly productive hours on our own project every night or early every morning. I'm pretty sure there are a good number of people on here who are splitting their days like this.
nhangen 14y ago
I don't think it's 'old school' to work long hours. In my case, it's because I enjoy my work and I don't mind putting in 60 hour weeks. That said, if I were on your team, I would love having the extra time away from work.

bentlegen 14y ago

NOTE: The people behind Flow are Metalab, a well-respected UI/UX agency. Most of the Flow team is also cross-listed on Metalab's team page (http://metalabdesign.com/about-us http://metalabdesign.com/about-us). What does that mean? Perhaps they're only working 4-6 hours on Flow, and 2-3 hours for client work for Metalab. Who knows? I think there's a lot left out of this story.

noonespecial 14y ago

One of the first bosses (entrepreneurs) I ever worked for used to pride himself on how "well balanced" his work and life were (and that of those of his early partners as well). They'd roll up about noon and were out buy 4:30. That all changed once they hired their first devs, for actual money. Once he was paying "$5000 per month for you" you damn well better be in by 9 and stay till 6. I wonder how their culture will change when they start paying big bucks for real employees.

edbyrne 14y ago

I love all this talk about hours worked as if it's not a proxy for achievement - of course it is. Will weak workers achieve great things in 6 hours or 16 hours? No. Will over-achievers do brilliant things in 6 hours instead of 16 - depends on your definition. Hours worked, working smart and all this BS doesn't matter. What matters is the size and complexity of the problem your working on, and how many problems you have to solve to move the needle on your goals. So if you can do a great 30 hour week a move the needle - lucky you! Some people have to pour in 80-100 hour weeks just move the needle because what they are working on just cant be done 'smarter'. I think the discussion needs to move from hours worked and quality of hours worked, back to quality of people : and hopefully the right people will work the right amount of time to productively deliver whats needed.