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Showing the current state matches light switches with the state on them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Switch-White-10-Pack-M24-01451-

Showing the current state matches light switches with the state on them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Switch-White-10-Pack-M24-01451-2WM/100075329 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Switc... Or car door locks which show red (unsafe) when unlocked. It's showing the current state, not the state that will be when toggled.

lowbloodsugar 3y ago
Red means “stop” and green means “go”. So how the fuck does red mean “this door is passable”??! “Unsafe” is contextual. If you are inside the car, and the car is on fire, then “locked” is very much the “unsafe” option.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  On many guns, switching the safety to the "fire" position exposes a red dot, red meaning "hot" or "fire".
  - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
    Yeah my CZ pistol is like that and it’s fucking terrifying because in my mind red means stop or locked. I actually feel more secure with my Glock because it doesn’t have a safety so it’s unambiguous. If I point my Glock and squeeze, I know it’s going to fire.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      The red of a stop light makes a lot more sense in relation to the red of a fire mode on a gun when you think of red being "caution, unsafe" instead of just "stop". Just like the red of a STOP sign is to caution you into paying attention of the danger of the cross traffic, not necessarily just stopping. Red lights on top of towers isn't trying to tell planes and helicopters to stop, its telling planes to exercise caution around the tower.
      - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
        Or like at a railway crossing. The flashing lights indicate danger, and the barriers drop. According to GP, the lights should flash when the barrier is not dropped, because now it's unsafe, FFS.
      - weebull 3y ago
        Reprogram your brain for "Red means danger, green means safe" and you'll do a lot better. Red at a traffic light means there's a danger so you stop. Green means it's safe to proceed. Red on a gun safety switch means danger because it's live. The red wire is live and dangerous. The green wire is earth and safe. (at least true in Europe).
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      Ah, my CZ is a DA/SA with a decocker. I'd recommend it! No manual safety, but you can hold the hammer forward while holstering.
- vel0city 3y ago
  I've been in moving vehicles where opening the door would have been unsafe more than I've been in car fires. I often lock my car when leaving as well which usually unlocked is a bad state to leave it in, that normally happens more often than being in a burning car. Are you in burning cars often?
  - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
    Honestly, if I’m in the car and we’re driving then I want to see a red light for same reason: red means stop and green means go. Or from outside after parking it: will this door open or will it stop somebody.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Red also often means "danger, caution" not just "stop". A red stop sign means "pay extreme attention here, there's danger, please stop and evaluate". A red DO NOT ENTER sign isn't just saying to stop, its saying there's danger heading that direction. If you just stop there its probably not going to end well, So clearly they're signaling more than just "stop". I'm still unsure, have you been in many burning cars before? More than just moving vehicles?
- wolfendin 3y ago
  If you’re inside a car and the car is on fire, you’re not determining the state of the door lock by its position visually. For people inside the car unlocked is the unsafe position in most cases (leaving, driving.) (Do car still come doors that don’t automatically unlock when the handle is pulled, if the child safety switch is disabled?)
- twixfel 3y ago
  At my current workplace (particle accelerator) one control panel in particular has red for "good" as in "this is red, so don't go in here, because everything's fine and you have no reason to". Always amuses me.
folmar 3y ago
The link is 403 for me.
- Spare_account 3y ago
  It's been archived https://web.archive.org/web/20240128035720/http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Switch-White-10-Pack-M24-01451-2WM/100075329 https://web.archive.org/web/20240128035720/http://www.homede...
ajyotirmay 3y ago
I guess such interactive elements always show the current state of the system, and when they are interacted with, it changes the state it was in, examples: 1. Social media buttons for upvotes/likes/dislikes 2. on/off toggle switches for features 3. microphone/speaker buttons on desktop OSes
- dotancohen 3y ago
  The YouTube play/pause button shows the action it will do, not the state that it is in.
  - phkahler 3y ago
    >> The YouTube play/pause button shows the action it will do, not the state that it is in. A lot of physical play/pause buttons show both symbols. Also in a lot of cases you can tell if a video is playing.
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      Not if it's buffering because you know that you have a bad internet connection. Around here, I often see people skip to an earlier portion of the video to check if it is playing or not. And that is anyway besides the point of consistent UIs' toggle switches describing their state, not their action.
  - godshatter 3y ago
    I miss the old convention of showing a button with shadows indicating it's been pushed in vs. showing it with just a flat plane when it's not pushed in. A button that shows that it's been pushed in with a triangle icon means it's playing, clicking or touching it will stop it from playing. A button that doesn't indicate it's been pushed in with a triangle icon is not playing, clicking or touching it will start it playing. Bonus points if there is a small virtual led that turns on when it's pushed in. Fewer and fewer devices we have access to these days have physical switches on them, though.
  - rerdavies 3y ago
cesaref 3y ago
And (as a european) i'm reminded of the confusing american light switches which show a light when they are off. Oh, and they toggle in the wrong direction (up is on?). By comparison, it's quite common here to have a switch with a lamp to indicate the light is on, which get used when the status of the light cannot be easily seen where the switch is located (e.g a switch for a light in the loft/outside light etc).
- bonton89 3y ago
  I believe American light switches are intended to confirm to a standard if installed correctly. But that all goes out the window with a 3 way switch.
- vel0city 3y ago
  I'd say in a residential setting our switches make a lot of sense. The light up variety are mostly to aid turning on the lights in the dark and aren't usually the default. It's nice being able to see the switch when entering a dark room.In a residential setting it's a bit more rare to have a switch control a light you're not either immediately seeing or are often imminently going to see, like a closet or looking out a window next to the switch. It's not like you're often turning on and off lights across the house, so having it light up when the room lights up is rather redundant instead of offering that dark time help. Finally, having an on light would be really redundant since you can usually easily see the switch is physically pointing up or down and they sometimes even say ON or OFF. As for up being on and down being off, it's about being easier to toggle to the safer state. It's more likely for off to be a safer state (think changing a bulb, having it connected to a garbage disposal, etc.). It's generally easier to flip the switch down than flipping it up, so it's easier to toggle to the safe state rather than the unsafe.
- Scarblac 3y ago
  > And (as a european) i'm reminded of the confusing american light switches which show a light when they are off. I have those in Europe. The point is that you can find the light switch in the dark. Why would it need a light when it's on, if it's in the room that it lights?

lowbloodsugar 3y ago

Red means “stop” and green means “go”. So how the fuck does red mean “this door is passable”??! “Unsafe” is contextual. If you are inside the car, and the car is on fire, then “locked” is very much the “unsafe” option.

rpmisms 3y ago
On many guns, switching the safety to the "fire" position exposes a red dot, red meaning "hot" or "fire".
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  Yeah my CZ pistol is like that and it’s fucking terrifying because in my mind red means stop or locked. I actually feel more secure with my Glock because it doesn’t have a safety so it’s unambiguous. If I point my Glock and squeeze, I know it’s going to fire.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    The red of a stop light makes a lot more sense in relation to the red of a fire mode on a gun when you think of red being "caution, unsafe" instead of just "stop". Just like the red of a STOP sign is to caution you into paying attention of the danger of the cross traffic, not necessarily just stopping. Red lights on top of towers isn't trying to tell planes and helicopters to stop, its telling planes to exercise caution around the tower.
    - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
      Or like at a railway crossing. The flashing lights indicate danger, and the barriers drop. According to GP, the lights should flash when the barrier is not dropped, because now it's unsafe, FFS.
    - weebull 3y ago
      Reprogram your brain for "Red means danger, green means safe" and you'll do a lot better. Red at a traffic light means there's a danger so you stop. Green means it's safe to proceed. Red on a gun safety switch means danger because it's live. The red wire is live and dangerous. The green wire is earth and safe. (at least true in Europe).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    Ah, my CZ is a DA/SA with a decocker. I'd recommend it! No manual safety, but you can hold the hammer forward while holstering.
vel0city 3y ago
I've been in moving vehicles where opening the door would have been unsafe more than I've been in car fires. I often lock my car when leaving as well which usually unlocked is a bad state to leave it in, that normally happens more often than being in a burning car. Are you in burning cars often?
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  Honestly, if I’m in the car and we’re driving then I want to see a red light for same reason: red means stop and green means go. Or from outside after parking it: will this door open or will it stop somebody.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Red also often means "danger, caution" not just "stop". A red stop sign means "pay extreme attention here, there's danger, please stop and evaluate". A red DO NOT ENTER sign isn't just saying to stop, its saying there's danger heading that direction. If you just stop there its probably not going to end well, So clearly they're signaling more than just "stop". I'm still unsure, have you been in many burning cars before? More than just moving vehicles?
wolfendin 3y ago
If you’re inside a car and the car is on fire, you’re not determining the state of the door lock by its position visually. For people inside the car unlocked is the unsafe position in most cases (leaving, driving.) (Do car still come doors that don’t automatically unlock when the handle is pulled, if the child safety switch is disabled?)
twixfel 3y ago
At my current workplace (particle accelerator) one control panel in particular has red for "good" as in "this is red, so don't go in here, because everything's fine and you have no reason to". Always amuses me.

folmar 3y ago

The link is 403 for me.

Spare_account 3y ago
It's been archived https://web.archive.org/web/20240128035720/http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Switch-White-10-Pack-M24-01451-2WM/100075329 https://web.archive.org/web/20240128035720/http://www.homede...

ajyotirmay 3y ago

I guess such interactive elements always show the current state of the system, and when they are interacted with, it changes the state it was in, examples: 1. Social media buttons for upvotes/likes/dislikes 2. on/off toggle switches for features 3. microphone/speaker buttons on desktop OSes

dotancohen 3y ago
The YouTube play/pause button shows the action it will do, not the state that it is in.
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> The YouTube play/pause button shows the action it will do, not the state that it is in. A lot of physical play/pause buttons show both symbols. Also in a lot of cases you can tell if a video is playing.
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    Not if it's buffering because you know that you have a bad internet connection. Around here, I often see people skip to an earlier portion of the video to check if it is playing or not. And that is anyway besides the point of consistent UIs' toggle switches describing their state, not their action.
- godshatter 3y ago
  I miss the old convention of showing a button with shadows indicating it's been pushed in vs. showing it with just a flat plane when it's not pushed in. A button that shows that it's been pushed in with a triangle icon means it's playing, clicking or touching it will stop it from playing. A button that doesn't indicate it's been pushed in with a triangle icon is not playing, clicking or touching it will start it playing. Bonus points if there is a small virtual led that turns on when it's pushed in. Fewer and fewer devices we have access to these days have physical switches on them, though.
- rerdavies 3y ago

cesaref 3y ago

And (as a european) i'm reminded of the confusing american light switches which show a light when they are off. Oh, and they toggle in the wrong direction (up is on?). By comparison, it's quite common here to have a switch with a lamp to indicate the light is on, which get used when the status of the light cannot be easily seen where the switch is located (e.g a switch for a light in the loft/outside light etc).

bonton89 3y ago
I believe American light switches are intended to confirm to a standard if installed correctly. But that all goes out the window with a 3 way switch.
vel0city 3y ago
I'd say in a residential setting our switches make a lot of sense. The light up variety are mostly to aid turning on the lights in the dark and aren't usually the default. It's nice being able to see the switch when entering a dark room.In a residential setting it's a bit more rare to have a switch control a light you're not either immediately seeing or are often imminently going to see, like a closet or looking out a window next to the switch. It's not like you're often turning on and off lights across the house, so having it light up when the room lights up is rather redundant instead of offering that dark time help. Finally, having an on light would be really redundant since you can usually easily see the switch is physically pointing up or down and they sometimes even say ON or OFF. As for up being on and down being off, it's about being easier to toggle to the safer state. It's more likely for off to be a safer state (think changing a bulb, having it connected to a garbage disposal, etc.). It's generally easier to flip the switch down than flipping it up, so it's easier to toggle to the safe state rather than the unsafe.
Scarblac 3y ago
> And (as a european) i'm reminded of the confusing american light switches which show a light when they are off. I have those in Europe. The point is that you can find the light switch in the dark. Why would it need a light when it's on, if it's in the room that it lights?